Lost Clutch (I think)

[Iowachopper]

So my first post for help. I welcome the sarcasm and blunt responses. One thing I've learned from reading on the forum is everyone has good intentions. I did my intro awhile back but none the less, my name is Mike, live in Cedar Rapids Iowa and have an 05' Chopper and a 08' Raider. Purchased my Chopper this summer from the original owner who bought it new, had the Mean Mothers upgrade and drove it. Didn't really clean it much or "love it". I picked it up for 7600 bucks with 7400 miles on it. With the help of the articles on this forum, Marky Mark on you tube, Wild Steed and Derek and Donna I've replaced the exhaust with a used V&H BR, S&S dual runners, new tires and EHC.

So fast forward to the purpose of this post. It has a creep since day 1. I changed all the fluids, used Lucas chaincase oil from Wild Steed and nothing really changed. I kept messing with the adjustments of the cable, the pushrod etc and learned a lot in terms of what adjustments causes or corrects what. The creep was bugging the shit out of me so I adjusted the pushrod again with the thought a little more clockwise to reduce it when in reality I should have gone counterclockwise. I turned it counter clockwise about 2/3's and pulled out into the street, barely even engaged. Pulled it back into the garage and damn it if I had to mess with it. Somehow it seems as though my clutch pack is stuck in the disengaged position. Feel like when you screw in the pushrod all the way it just goes and bottoms out if that makes sense. If I do just turn it in until there is resistance (Which is when it bottoms out) and back a 1/4 turn the clutch lever feel like its just forcing the pushrod into a wall. The pushrod and the nut barely if at all rotate when you pull the clutch. By visual appearance it look like the pushrod and the nut are sitting in the all the way in position. I did check the ball and ramp several times and did intentionally jump it to understand what it meant. It is properly installed I believe and in the all the way to the left or rear depending on how you look at it. Cable is good, bike now has 8200 miles on it. No other issues with the clutch other than the creep. Doesn't slip, burns outs ok, etc. I tried to be as descriptive as possible and read as much as I could find before posting. I am sure and hope somebody will just post a missed thread. Any ideas before I pull the primary? Oh and the derby cover was a sick joke, its fake what the hell?

Thanks!

 

[Iowachopper]

Well that was my next step just hoping there was a simpler solution before pulling it. Will I need to replace the gasket I assume?

 

[cdogg556]

Hey Mike, I just replaced my pressure plate with the upgraded version and the throwout bearing, new spring, anyhow I used to have a slight creep also, but after replacing those things and adjusting the pushrod by turning it in till it's snug then back 1/8 turn I don't have the creeping anymore and it shifts unbelievably good! You prolly should remove the primary cover, pull out the clutch plates and see what's up in there, then after you know that you can go from there.

 

[cdogg556]

Well that was my next step just hoping there was a simpler solution before pulling it. Will I need to replace the gasket I assume?

No, it's a o-ring type and reuseable.

 

[BWG56]

No, it's a o-ring type and reuseable.

What about the inspection cover gasket?

 

[BWG56]

Hey Mike, I just replaced my pressure plate with the upgraded version and the throwout bearing, new spring, anyhow I used to have a slight creep also, but after replacing those things and adjusting the pushrod by turning it in till it's snug then back 1/8 turn I don't have the creeping anymore and it shifts unbelievably good! You prolly should remove the primary cover, pull out the clutch plates and see what's up in there, then after you know that you can go from there.

I have mine backed off less, 1/16 turn but I have the 12 disc with the soft pull ramp which was intended for the 9 disc clutch. Do you know what primary oil is in there? I run regular hardly primary oil in mine.

 

[woodbutcher]

Pull the pushed and take a look at the point to see if you have any wear from contact with the throwout bearing. The rod is case hardened and once the hardening wears out, it goes away quickly, at which point, it's time to replace. Good luck.

 

[Iowachopper]

Hey Mike, I just replaced my pressure plate with the upgraded version and the throwout bearing, new spring, anyhow I used to have a slight creep also, but after replacing those things and adjusting the pushrod by turning it in till it's snug then back 1/8 turn I don't have the creeping anymore and it shifts unbelievably good! You prolly should remove the primary cover, pull out the clutch plates and see what's up in there, then after you know that you can go from there.

Sounds good, the clutch was driving me crazy from day 1. First the belt was jumping until i tightened up, then the creep and so on. I will admit I do beat on it a bit but its hard not to. I do however take care of my things and fix what I break. Thanks for the info on the gasket! I'll keep everybody posted with pics.

 

[Iowachopper]

Pull the pushed and take a look at the point to see if you have any wear from contact with the throwout bearing. The rod is case hardened and once the hardening wears out, it goes away quickly, at which point, it's time to replace. Good luck.

Good info, I did look at that, its pointed with a flat tip. Does not look worn or anything. I'm still baffled how I caused it by just adjusting it. None the less I guess as much as the creep was driving me crazy pulling the primary cover off to inspect was inevitable.

 

[PROFLYER]

Clutch hub nut and, frankly, you need to tear into it to make sure it's NOT that (which it likely is). If that goes any further it'll wreck a bunch of parts. Get a new hardened nut and washer from Curtis at wild steed worx and put that nut down (left hand threads, so lefty tighty) to 150ftlbs (yes, that much) with RED loctite as well. Let it sit overnight before you go ride it so the loctite can cure really well. Shouldn't have a problem after that.

While you're in there check you clutch plates and metal plates. The clutch plates should still have some material on them and you should be able to see the squares around the plate. They're not super thick, but as long as you can see squares you're good. The discs go back in sharp side toward the tranny (I've seen them backwards which causes issues for some reason). Check your throwout bearing. This is where that rod pushes from all the way on the other side of the tranny. It should spin freely and not feel like it grinds or holds up, if it does replace it.

Button it all back up and readjust it. Remember, loosen cable all the way, adjust rod, adjust cable.

I'd go ahead and order a new nut, washer, primary gasket, inspection cover gasket and throw-out bearing from Curtis. Nothing worse than getting in there and needing a $5 part that's a week away. The 'new' gaskets are sort of square not round and they're awesome. Oh, might as well get a tension shoe for the primary chain. If it has decent grooves in it, time to replace it. Again, all cheap parts and might as well while you're in there.

 

[PROFLYER]

Good info, I did look at that, its pointed with a flat tip. Does not look worn or anything. I'm still baffled how I caused it by just adjusting it. None the less I guess as much as the creep was driving me crazy pulling the primary cover off to inspect was inevitable.

Wait your rod has a flat tip? Should be rounded.

 

[Iowachopper]

What about the inspection cover gasket?

I replaced mine with a gasket that wouldn't stop leaking when I changed the primary fluid. I used chain case oil gasket maker when I put it back on the 3rd time. Worked perfect. When I originally removed the cover it already had gasket maker on it. All the surfaces looked ok, not sure.

 

[Iowachopper]

Wait your rod has a flat tip? Should be rounded.

I'll take a picture at lunch, while I did look at the tip I really didn't know what I was looking as far as what its suppose to look like. I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure it was pointed to a flat tip.

 

[Iowachopper]

Clutch hub nut and, frankly, you need to tear into it to make sure it's NOT that (which it likely is). If that goes any further it'll wreck a bunch of parts. Get a new hardened nut and washer from Curtis at wild steed worx and put that nut down (left hand threads, so lefty tighty) to 150ftlbs (yes, that much) with RED loctite as well. Let it sit overnight before you go ride it so the loctite can cure really well. Shouldn't have a problem after that.

While you're in there check you clutch plates and metal plates. The clutch plates should still have some material on them and you should be able to see the squares around the plate. They're not super thick, but as long as you can see squares you're good. The discs go back in sharp side toward the tranny (I've seen them backwards which causes issues for some reason). Check your throwout bearing. This is where that rod pushes from all the way on the other side of the tranny. It should spin freely and not feel like it grinds or holds up, if it does replace it.

Button it all back up and readjust it. Remember, loosen cable all the way, adjust rod, adjust cable.

I'd go ahead and order a new nut, washer, primary gasket, inspection cover gasket and throw-out bearing from Curtis. Nothing worse than getting in there and needing a $5 part that's a week away. The 'new' gaskets are sort of square not round and they're awesome. Oh, might as well get a tension shoe for the primary chain. If it has decent grooves in it, time to replace it. Again, all cheap parts and might as well while you're in there.

Man, thanks for all the info! That's the most frustrating part is not having the parts on hand. Like you I order "extra" on anything I mail order just to make sure. Thanks again!

 

[Forsaken]

Mike, I've got the same bike and although I shouldn't have been... I was still surprised to find the clutch assembly loose...it really does happen that often. At 7K miles on your bike, I wouldn't expect too many problems but I have talked to a guy whose clutch hub carrier fractured at 6.5K miles... the stock carrier is cast and from what I gather on the forum, another problem area. Please share your findings... I'm still learning.

 

[PROFLYER]

I'll take a picture at lunch, while I did look at the tip I really didn't know what I was looking as far as what its suppose to look like. I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure it was pointed to a flat tip.

Yeah it tapers to a tip and the tip is rounded. If it's got a flat spot on the end, or the whole end is flat, it's toast. Possibly someone adjusted it too tight due to the clutch creeping like you're describing, and it wore it flat. If so you definitely want a new rod and throw-out bearing.

Rod is $40
http://www.wildsteedworx.com/index....info&cPath=65_68_173_242_243&products_id=1379

Throw-out is $36
http://www.wildsteedworx.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1440

 

[Iowachopper]

Man, thanks for all the info! That's the most frustrating part is not having the parts on hand. Like you I order "extra" on anything I mail order just to make sure. Thanks again!

Mike, I've got the same bike and although I shouldn't have been... I was still surprised to find the clutch assembly loose...it really does happen that often. At 7K miles on your bike, I wouldn't expect too many problems but I have talked to a guy whose clutch hub carrier fractured at 6.5K miles... the stock carrier is cast and from what I gather on the forum, another problem area. Please share your findings... I'm still learning.

Will do, I ordered that parts Proflyer recommend. I'll try and open it up tonight to take a peek. The original owner was a very mild person that likely didn't abuse it at all but never know. I have to admit I run it pretty hard so we'll see.

 

[Iowachopper]

Yeah it tapers to a tip and the tip is rounded. If it's got a flat spot on the end, or the whole end is flat, it's toast. Possibly someone adjusted it too tight due to the clutch creeping like you're describing, and it wore it flat. If so you definitely want a new rod and throw-out bearing.

Rod is $40
http://www.wildsteedworx.com/index....info&cPath=65_68_173_242_243&products_id=1379

Throw-out is $36
http://www.wildsteedworx.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1440

I just ordered all of it, no reason to wonder over 40 bucks. Thanks again!

 

[BWG56]

I replaced mine with a gasket that wouldn't stop leaking when I changed the primary fluid. I used chain case oil gasket maker when I put it back on the 3rd time. Worked perfect. When I originally removed the cover it already had gasket maker on it. All the surfaces looked ok, not sure.

They do state in the manual to use a small bead of silicon with the gasket against the primary.

 

[PROFLYER]

They do state in the manual to use a small bead of silicon with the gasket against the primary.

That was before the change to the square type gasket that curtis stocks now. You can tell it's a bit thicker as the cover sits off the inner a few thousandths. No need for the silicon he said, plus it makes a mess.