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Tappet noise

Discussion in 'Motor' started by SKOGDOG, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    I did.. like 10 times already and made sure I followed all torque specs to a T
     
  2. Sven

    Sven Well-Known Member

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    I've extended my theory out adding another factor so it makes even more sense in my own little reality. So the theory goes: "Rub both hands together.' 'Which hand stayed cold?' The theory being, heat, even wear, concentrated in range. Now, if I ran my hand up my arm and sort of rubbed it this way, I am running over a cold surface and not concentrating the heat in one area. With that said...

    ... Hear me out, see if this makes sense. Think of the current floating rocker pin with the C cut, so the bolt locks the X movement and the longer wear range is Y; or how much float the C cut is v. a staked pin. Here is where the theory comes in. If I think of the pin and it now acts as a chain's pin; I now see that pin as if pressed in the link so it does not move.

    When the chain curls around the smaller sprocket, there is more arch grinding part of the pin away. And when a pin wears there is no link stretch, so obviously you add up the pin's loss on that one side, and this shows the wear; when the link is pulled away from the sprocket. So if you think about it, the wear is concentrated at one area rather than having the C cut to move more of the pin to wear at a wider (cooler) range.

    So actually it will take a shorter time to concentrate the notch it's about to narrow in on.

    Make sense?

    Signed,
    NOLTT
     
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  3. john sachs

    john sachs Active Member

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    The pin trying to float puts MORE WEAR on the rocker arm bushings especially on the valve spring side, end of story.
    John
     
  4. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    What pin? You lost me completely the pin that holds the rocker arms to the housing? I have installed set screws there to keep it from moving
     
  5. Th3InfamousI

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    He is talking about the shaft, just calling it a pin. Tomatoe, Tomato

    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
     
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  6. john sachs

    john sachs Active Member

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    Obvious . The rocker arm shaft. I called it a pin as Sven has done. I didn't want to confuse him(Sven). I can't understand his wording most of the time.
    John
     
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  7. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    So obviously set screws did nothing. What other options do I have other trying to trust someone else to machine in new bushings.. I have some serious trust issues after that guy doing my head and jug work..
     
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  8. john sachs

    john sachs Active Member

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    Set screws, and Rocker Lockers, where usable seems to kill 90 % of the tick, tick.
    Maybe you have something else going on. :(
    John
     
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  9. dentdude36

    dentdude36 Member

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    Pull the motor and send it to @john sachs to look at, I met him at a biketoberfest meet up definetly a great guy and knows his stuff
     
  10. BWG56

    BWG56 Guru

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    :agree::stupid:It’s time to let the professionals fix it right
     
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  11. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    Yeah.. think it would be cheaper for me to drive it there. Lol
     
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  12. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    So on a serious note, what am I looking at just for you to even look at my engine and go from there
     
  13. BWG56

    BWG56 Guru

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    Prolly want to PM him or call for a price.
     
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  14. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    Pm'd before.. got no response..
     
  15. pknowles

    pknowles Getting better by the day...---... GURU
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    prolly one of the smarter quotes of the day:oldthumbsup:
     
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  16. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    I agree and didn't see it coming from our buddy Ker.. hahaha
     
  17. pknowles

    pknowles Getting better by the day...---... GURU
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  18. Sven

    Sven Well-Known Member

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    Tick throughout the valve-train system:
    1. Cam to roller score = ahhh, not so much. You'd think the needle bearings would disintegrate and the roller would wobble/knock/tick.
    2. Valve lifter = Here is something one might overlook. Only way out of this is to use solid lifters and a loose valve lash to quite the noise.
    3. Cam profile = That harmonic spring bounce might ('for every action/reaction') be too close, thus too tight a valve lash will cause a tick. Unless you can explain the cam lobe closing, where most ticks are remedied via valve lash adjustment. (empirical knowledge speaking)
    4. Rocker to Pin = Back to cam acting the ramp and this moves linear in motion taking up clearance, not an abrupt tick of speed, meaning.

    Tick at the Top End:
    a. Valve lash = Did not remove tick noise. (have we tired this?)
    b. Pin Staking = Did not remove tick noise. (shows junk science did not remove tick with this mod)
    c. Piston Slap = Did we remove a spark plug and note any cylinder wall galling? (burnt piston skirt loses clearance and slaps/ticks--when it reverses movement at the bottom [goes tick] and then [ticks] immediately ATDC heading back down to BDC and the tick repeats).
     
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  19. SKOGDOG

    SKOGDOG One of the old ones.
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    Well, it seems to me that in the upper valve train, there are only a few places the ticking could originate. Most valve ticking is irritating but usually nothing terribly damaging.

    Doubtful the valve itself makes a noise closing....the pushrod arm could tick when it depresses the valve. Examine wear mark on pushrod arm to be sure it isn't wandering.

    Next could be the pin (or rod) that the pushrod arm pivots on. Two ways to tick here: 1) in rotating, the notch could be rotating with the arm and the top and bottom of the notch could be tapping the retaining bolt because of some play; or 2) there could be wear in the bushing that allows a bit of vertical end play when the valve spring is depressed and the rod ticks because it is moving up and down. My 111" engine S&S manual says new bushings should be reamed to .5546-.5559". Of course Allen screws and/or Rocker Lockers should stabilize the pin (or rod).

    Maybe the entire rocker arm might have some play and moving horizontally. My S&S manual says .001"-.012" is acceptable.

    The next place is the pushrod (both ends are suspect).
    Usually the pushrod is nested with hydraulic pressure, and unless it is bent or the tappet somehow not able to hold hydraulic pressure or has a defective roller (potential for catastrophic failure thee) I would think the pushrod is pretty much a captive audience.

    Next is where the lifter roller is bumped by the cam. That is to me a deeper sound, and not really a tick.
    Your frustration is understandable, Kel. I know in my case, the Allen screws pretty much solved the problem for that 111" engine Bagger. It was pretty noisy too. Ask Eric..he rode it one day.
    Good luck and keep us posted.
    p.s.
    My 111" engine bore is 4 1/8"--the same as 117 & 124--the stroke is longer on the bigger engines. So I'm pretty sure the same specs apply.
     
    #39 SKOGDOG, Jun 14, 2018 at 8:37 PM
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018 at 8:54 PM
  20. pknowles

    pknowles Getting better by the day...---... GURU
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    On my wife's Harley softail she had a lifter that was going bad and it ticked like a sewing machine. It was easy to hear and locate with a piece of wooden dowel held by the lifters and against your ear. Her noise was rpm dependent.
     

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