Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

Sign Up

Tear down

Discussion in 'General' started by bigkelk9, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. SomeTexan

    SomeTexan Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Godley Tx
    My Bike(s):
    05 Big Dog Ridgeback
    First Name:
    Adam
    That sounds about right. If you could have pulled a degree or two of timing, it probably would have helped. Although these big twins aren’t my area of expertise, cam theory is the same for all internal combustion engines. I was actually shocked at how few cam options there are. I’m used to Chevy big and small blocks that have literally tens of thousands of options available. Woods has some neat cams, but most of the ones I have looked at have some pretty aggressive ramp profiles. Mix that with the offset rockers on these big bore engines, and you have potential problems. Mainly just excessive wear, but aggressive ramp profiles are harder on springs, pushrods and valves and seats as well as the rockers. Most of the S&S cams seem to be fairly gentle on the valvetrain though.

    I could talk cam theory all day, but it looks like you have a pro who knows his stuff handling your parts. Let him know what you want and take his advice.
     
    TapioK and PROFLYER like this.
  2. SMCT

    SMCT Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    North East
    My Bike(s):
    06 K9, H-D Dyna Wide Glide
    First Name:
    Andy
    These pistons are .048 to .052 in the hole. That is ridiculous. There are some serious gains by reducing the piston to deck clearance and tightening up the quench. From memory these engines in the Big Dog frame as they came from Big Dog are 9.52 with a .039 gasket. By bringing the deck clearance to around .005 rather then .052 and using a .035 gasket, it drives that compression ratio to 10.77, and with the 600 cam and premium fuel, they do just fine. It's the camshafts intake events that bleed off the cylinder pressure, and as always your camshaft events should match your compression ratio.
     
    Steve2134 likes this.
  3. SMCT

    SMCT Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    North East
    My Bike(s):
    06 K9, H-D Dyna Wide Glide
    First Name:
    Andy
    Tapio, your heads and cylinders where in my shop, although I did not have your short block in my shop. When we spoke, you mentioned to me that, "you think that they might have been cut, but wasn't sure". When I picked up the heads and cylinders, your k9 was already at your local motorcycle shop. I never cut your cylinder bases.

    To answer your question, I would definitely need to know where the piston sits in relation to the top of the cylinder when the piston is at tdc. This can simply be done by removing the front cylinder head. You can re-use the Cometic gasket that is on your engine.
     
  4. Mr. Wright

    Mr. Wright Guru
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    7,626
    Likes Received:
    10,623
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Salem, Missouri
    My Bike(s):
    04 BD Chopper- 2002 1100 v-star
    First Name:
    Shannon
    Just for future reference, when you see something posted by SMCT, you stand at attention and listen to what he has to say. This man knows what he's talking about. :old2:
     
  5. SomeTexan

    SomeTexan Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Godley Tx
    My Bike(s):
    05 Big Dog Ridgeback
    First Name:
    Adam
    Did you catch the last paragraph in that reply? Not many people get the “pro” title and even fewer get the straight up “take his advice” recommendation from me. Even fewer that I don’t personally know get that recommendation. There is a lot of respect from me in those two sentences.
     
    chubs, bigkelk9 and Mr. Wright like this.
  6. Th3InfamousI

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    10,515
    Likes Received:
    15,382
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Texas
    My Bike(s):
    04 Ridgeback & 07 K9
    First Name:
    Eric
    In with ya...tighten up the quench. Hopefully some day I'll do that.

    These S&S motors we have are EPA so they did detune to pass them.

    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
     
  7. Th3InfamousI

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    10,515
    Likes Received:
    15,382
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Texas
    My Bike(s):
    04 Ridgeback & 07 K9
    First Name:
    Eric
    I'm guessing you use the MLS Cometic Gaskets?

    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
     
  8. SMCT

    SMCT Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    North East
    My Bike(s):
    06 K9, H-D Dyna Wide Glide
    First Name:
    Andy
    I am on a deep discount with Cometic and the head and base gaskets for these S&S engines are cheap in comparison to what we use in the shop, so I bought a bulk of different head gasket thicknesses. The base only is offered in one thickness which is .019. That will allow those who don't want to take the cylinders up and off, to just replace their current .039 head gasket with a .023 or a .027 head gasket.

    It wasn't a thing about making a business out of it, or making money on it. It was more or less that I could help others with their problems and frustrations, and have the parts to ship to them if need be. These engines are quite simple. Not to much to them. One simple philosophy and you'll be on the right track and enjoying these motorcycles. They are stunning looking bikes, and once you get a few things taken care of (faults of poor engineering decisions) you will be very pleased.

    If you haven't changed out the factory gaskets at this point, you will be. The factory garbage base gasket tends to blow out and distort (Oil leak at cylinders base). It's apparent that any way Big Dog could cut corners, they did. Very unfortunate.
     
    #48 SMCT, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
    bigkelk9 likes this.
  9. Butch Cassidy

    Butch Cassidy Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Messages:
    363
    Likes Received:
    467
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Fate Texas
    My Bike(s):
    2000 Bulldog
    First Name:
    BUTCH
    Okay; I have a 2000 Bulldog with a 107" and a 600cam. Should I be looking at a base gasket change and/or a tighter quench.? Any problems I should expect.?
     
  10. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    5,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Southeast Texas / Southern California
    My Bike(s):
    07 big dog k9
    First Name:
    Kel
    So just an update, spoke with the machinest and my cylinder walls were out of round so they had to be honed which of coarse New piston and rings. The heads were on such bad shape that the sleeves were stuck to the valves and coming apart. So needless to say, the original 400 to 600 I planned on spending has now turned into 1400.. but he says I should have 60 to 80k engine trouble free miles from it, being my bottom end is all New as well.. and decided on going with the 600 after I found out that the 117 came with them stock and were pre shaved unlike our engines that had to be EPA approved.
     
    BWG56 and TapioK like this.
  11. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    5,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Southeast Texas / Southern California
    My Bike(s):
    07 big dog k9
    First Name:
    Kel
    Yeah.. well between that, both compression release wires solder being broke, which explains how I went through two starter shafts in less then 6 months. And them damn things were loose too.. at least I know it will be solid when I get everything back. I would have never thought it was that bad with how much I ride it and all that.
     
    BWG56 and TapioK like this.
  12. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    5,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Southeast Texas / Southern California
    My Bike(s):
    07 big dog k9
    First Name:
    Kel
    So just spoke with three different powder coating places and was told the same thing by all three, the machine work should have been done after powder coating due to oven temps and making sure the metals are true after.. I mean it's only about 150 worth of powder coating to do the whole engine, but they have to split the case of the engine and press new bearings and blah blah blah which is like 500 bucks. So all and all I'm looking at about 1k for powder coating for them to recheck what was just done.
     
  13. woodbutcher

    woodbutcher Mr. Old Fart member #145
    Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    10,549
    Likes Received:
    4,110
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    hilton head is., sc
    My Bike(s):
    black cherry '07 K9
    First Name:
    Tom
    and,,,,,,, with them splitting the case back open, there goes your warranty.
     
  14. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    5,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Southeast Texas / Southern California
    My Bike(s):
    07 big dog k9
    First Name:
    Kel
    These things have some kind of warranty?? Whaaat?? It's like 10 years old.. :eek:
     
  15. woodbutcher

    woodbutcher Mr. Old Fart member #145
    Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    10,549
    Likes Received:
    4,110
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    hilton head is., sc
    My Bike(s):
    black cherry '07 K9
    First Name:
    Tom
    the 30 day warranty from the shop doing your work. (yea, right)
     
  16. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    5,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Southeast Texas / Southern California
    My Bike(s):
    07 big dog k9
    First Name:
    Kel
    They aren't touching the bottom end. The bike is at my house, I took the top end off and shipped it off to get all that done.
     
  17. cdogg556

    cdogg556 Guru

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    6,931
    Likes Received:
    14,915
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Folsom, Ca.
    My Bike(s):
    2009 Big Dog Mastiff, Chrome Package, DOC's ESC, 585 cam, VH Big Radius Exhaust, 2.5" fwd cntls.
    First Name:
    John
    Remember Kel, bigger is not always better! Haha!
     
    BWG56 and bigkelk9 like this.
  18. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    5,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Southeast Texas / Southern California
    My Bike(s):
    07 big dog k9
    First Name:
    Kel
    20171020_192923.jpg
     
    chubs likes this.
  19. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    5,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Southeast Texas / Southern California
    My Bike(s):
    07 big dog k9
    First Name:
    Kel
    She is getting close. Adjust my valves tonight and throw the primary cover back on and exhaust.. 20171028_152102.jpg 20171029_094430.jpg 20171029_203627.jpg
     
    BWG56, SomeTexan and pknowles like this.
  20. Unsprung

    Unsprung In the Potters hand...
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    2,588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Ruskin, FL
    My Bike(s):
    08 K9, 06 Hayabusa, (wife's ride)
    First Name:
    Gerald
    Was powder coat done?
     

Share This Page