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Tear down

Discussion in 'General' started by bigkelk9, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. BWG56

    BWG56 Guru

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    That's a bummer:oldbang: when ya put that kinda time into it
     
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  2. dentdude36

    dentdude36 Guru

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    That sucks
     
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  3. Forsaken

    Forsaken Active Member

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    That sucks Big time... having to do the job twice.
     
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  4. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    I switched to metal gaskets instead of the factory cardboard gaskets, so I'm just going to tear her down yet again and do this all over again. Obviously I did something wrong but for the life of me I can' figure it out. Torque specs were all dead nuts on. I put 100 miles on her and in the last 15 miles or so of it I hear the pinging sound which was me loosing compression somewhere as well as my ticking which came in right at about 20 miles. Is what it is, just gotta spend more time with her. Really sucks because it' prime riding time right now!
     
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  5. Forsaken

    Forsaken Active Member

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    I know that feeling when you just want to wrap it up real quick and hit the road, I usually end up with some parts left over. You are in essence performing heart surgery on your baby... step back, take a break then hit it with a clear head. I'm sure you'll find the problem... it's usually the little details that get you. I'm following your thread cause I know I'll eventually have to do some motor work.
     
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  6. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    Appreciate that. I got the parts in complete exactly a week before I knew I was going to the Rally, worked on her the whole weekend, then everyday after work. Got off at noon on Friday for the finishing touches because I waa taking my time to make sure I did everything right. I wanna say I did everything right but obviously didnt.. the only thing I know for sure is that there is something wrong with my rocker boxes that had nothing to with install because it sounds the same exact way it did before. But I'll keep everyone posted. I might look at it this week.. idk
     
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  7. SomeTexan

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    Have you tried retorquing the head bolts? A couple of heat cycles will fit everything together and loosen the bolts a little. As for the rocker box noise, cams break in too. Maybe a quick adjust will take care of it.
     
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  8. Forsaken

    Forsaken Active Member

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  9. Th3InfamousI

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    Very true...I very much believe owning a BigDog will either teach you patience or it will have a for sale sign on it. No real middle ground.

    In the end, in a sick way, I've always been happy with the lessons it teaches me.



    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
     
  10. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    Yeah.. and believe it or not I am determined to figure this out.. u once told me that and made me think real hard every time Dahlia pisses on my parade!
     
  11. Th3InfamousI

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    Regarding the torque sequence for the head bolts. Did you do 8 then 18ft lbs then another 90 degrees (1/4 turn)?

    Also note the mention of a drop of oil, so the torque rating is WET. There is a difference between WET and DRY ratings, if you didn't apply some type of bolt dressing then you probably came up a little short on the torque.

    [​IMG]



    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
    [​IMG]
     
    #111 Th3InfamousI, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  12. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    Yea sir.. sure did.. have the entire manual thanks to s&s
     
  13. SMCT

    SMCT Active Member

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    So let's here a recap on who touched what and what they and you did.
     
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  14. SMCT

    SMCT Active Member

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    what the heck is that circular ridge on the heads surface? [​IMG]
     
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  15. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    That's what he called a spin drop to loose the gap and increase the compression. So what he did was bore put my jugs because they weren't true, so he sent me the jugs and new pistons back so i can mock it up and send him back a measurement on the depth from the top of my jugs to the top of my p stons which was .032 on the rear and .037 on the front. He calculated how much to shave the heads to bring me down to about .025 - .029 on both which were specs from S&S for their crate 117's. When he sent everything back he sent me metal gaskets and told me to use those. I torqued my heads down per instructions which I still don't feel comfortable with because it just doesn't seem like it's enough. But I did and left it like that. The whole purpose for this tear down wasn't to increase the power of the bike and all That, but being I was getting brand new Carillo pistons and it was bored over and the bike was already tore apart I figures why not make it how it is supposes to be instead of dummied down for a production EPA bike which is what we all had originally.
     
  16. SMCT

    SMCT Active Member

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    He made that so called "drop" modification to net you a difference of about .007? That's what the math calculates out to. That's absurd. Now you have a gap, an area, or a void that is between the protruded portion of the cylinder head and the cylinder. To avoid detonation you tighten up the quench area as much as possible. That means if you effectively, and correctly measured .032 and .037, then the only area that should have material removed is the cylinders base, and no where else. That amount that needs to be removed should have been anywhere from .035 to .037 on one cylinder and .030 to .032 on the other cylinder. This method prevents detonation because it forces the air/fuel mixture to the pistons center, for the combustion process.

    As far as the torque instructions on that paper posted, it's horse shit. The 90 degree method is bullshit and the least accurate. Polish the o.d. of the head bolts shoulder. Use moly on the shoulder, use moly on the threads. Torque the 4 bolts to 17 to 18 ft pounds, then to 32, and last torque at 40. Between torque intervals, let sit for around 2 minutes or so, as this settles the gasket. Pull the torque wrench slow and steady, and if you want to throw an additional step in prior to the 17 to 18 initial torque, you can do so with 10 to 12 foot pounds.

    My opinion on your cylinder head machine work is, to surface the heads flat, period. Get rid of that step.
    Check your manifold to port alignment and correct if necessary.

    How the heck are you suppose to get rid of that tic if you didn't make adjustments to the rocker boxes?
    Did you put new lifters in this engine? If not, my suggestion is to put a brand new set of S&S premium lifters in it. The only way to figure this out, is to discard the old and put on new. It's only two cylinders and not a V8. Things just don't correct themselves by wishful thinking.

    P.S. I have head gaskets that are .023, .030, .035 and .040. When you think about what was done for .007 of a difference, it's crazy logic and makes no sense what so ever.
     
    #116 SMCT, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
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  17. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    Okay, so I just spoke with him, he had my dry for everything first without gaskets to assure everything was good and heads would sink into place, he also just informed me that the specs I used for torque will not work with the Cometic gaskets he provided and sent me a torque sheet similar to what u stated. I have brand new lifters and push rods, cam, valves to accommodate the cam, heads have been completely redone, brand new Carillo pistons.
     
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  18. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    IMG_20171106_093240294.jpg
     
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  19. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    Ill look at my envoice and verify that i was correct on my numbers.
     
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  20. bigkelk9

    bigkelk9 Well-Known Member
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    20171029_110938.jpg
     
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