lonerider101
Member
Now, after pressing the 'Run' button with key on does yur stater turn over by pressing 'Start' button?
K-9 Shut Down mid-shift, Won't Start
- Thread starter Drayno
- Start date
Drayno
Member
Hilarious!!!!!!
No, I'm right where I started, except I know motor is not seized, starter works, battery is good. It's electric, so trying to figure out how to test components without having to spend $2k on all of them.
HMAN
I just like my Freedom
Derick has new key switches avaliable.
lonerider101
Member
Hilarious? What I mean't was after disconnecting/reconnecting battery did it help the handlebar functions as did speedo & headlight? Has been said that key ign switch is pretty much ol' universal tractor style that can be purchased from local auto shops for cheap(no BDM keys) - sure u recognized that from all yur toys. I'll pull out my manual when I return from church to see if shows handlebar circuit board diagram.
Nukeranger
Nukeranger
I see you said something about 3 position key switch!
I only have 2 positions......On and Off. Maybe something to look at. It can be tested and/or bypassed to help figure out if it is the ignition switch.
I only have 2 positions......On and Off. Maybe something to look at. It can be tested and/or bypassed to help figure out if it is the ignition switch.
lonerider101
Member
I saw a BDM 3-position switch offered - possibly for accesseries, etc. & yes u can test each ign switch terminal with meter or continuity light for fire. Then hook jumper wire from 1 side to other or battery if no fire coming thru.
Drayno
Member
My stock had only had two positions, this is the key tumbler that came with WP+ and was told it needed to be put on. Not a direct fit, has some play in it. Out of town for business all week so she's gonna sit for a bit.
I did see someone awhile back put a keyless FOB system on their Dog, bike was yellow, maybe Franco?? I cant find post but should probably put something in upgrades forum if I still can't find. Just wondering if there is dog specific model out there, have had issues with key tumbler in past, time to ditch it.
When I get back, time to tear everything apart and get a good look at wiring.
What can I use to clean control board with out damaging them?
Thanks guys.
I did see someone awhile back put a keyless FOB system on their Dog, bike was yellow, maybe Franco?? I cant find post but should probably put something in upgrades forum if I still can't find. Just wondering if there is dog specific model out there, have had issues with key tumbler in past, time to ditch it.
When I get back, time to tear everything apart and get a good look at wiring.
What can I use to clean control board with out damaging them?
Thanks guys.
francoblay1
The Spaniard
Nope, not me. But would be nice to find out how the FOB was installed.
I think the lead-acid is the battery needed. I might be wrong so to find out, see who runs a lith-type in their BD and have no problems with it. If say they have no problem starting, balancing the motherboard from winking itself for more millivolts, then your battery needs a pro-rate, a return, etc.
Drayno
Member
Thanks Sven. Battery crossed my mind as well, but had WPS lithium for last 5 years, so new lithium does not make sense as to troubles.
Tore apart the right side control, cleaned, crossed fingers, still ain't got shit. No voltage at solenoid, so either forward control (but I just cleaned them and they "click" like they should) or WP+ shit out. Maybe Thunderheart crapped out? How should I test?
Props to EZ Dog who gave me legit mechanic in the area. Worst case take it there, but I have this bitch torn apart enough much rather find solution on my own.
On a side note, bought this bike in '09, before I bought my first house. I love this bike, and I love Big Dog. My only major issues up to now (with standard regular maintenance) have been electrical, and many of the "help" posts have been in the same electrical vein. Do we need sub-post for electrical under help wanted?
Do we have anything that details the flow of electrical connections on our bikes? Diagrams are one thing, but I think if someone can break it down in detail where the voltage starts, travels, and ends up it may help quite a few members. I am talking about a trouble-shooting guide which details where to start and where to end for electrical. I am not capable of an accurate portrayal otherwise I would. My skill is to weld shit together, not lick every wire on the bike til I feel the tingle.
Tore apart the right side control, cleaned, crossed fingers, still ain't got shit. No voltage at solenoid, so either forward control (but I just cleaned them and they "click" like they should) or WP+ shit out. Maybe Thunderheart crapped out? How should I test?
Props to EZ Dog who gave me legit mechanic in the area. Worst case take it there, but I have this bitch torn apart enough much rather find solution on my own.
On a side note, bought this bike in '09, before I bought my first house. I love this bike, and I love Big Dog. My only major issues up to now (with standard regular maintenance) have been electrical, and many of the "help" posts have been in the same electrical vein. Do we need sub-post for electrical under help wanted?
Do we have anything that details the flow of electrical connections on our bikes? Diagrams are one thing, but I think if someone can break it down in detail where the voltage starts, travels, and ends up it may help quite a few members. I am talking about a trouble-shooting guide which details where to start and where to end for electrical. I am not capable of an accurate portrayal otherwise I would. My skill is to weld shit together, not lick every wire on the bike til I feel the tingle.
Jersey Big Mike
100K mile club
ok, you can bypass the starter switch by taking 12v (from big connector on starter) and using a small wire and connecting it to the usually green space lug on the starter. That should activate the starter. Make sure you touch it not leave it attached. Only spin starter for max of 5 secs, preferrablly 3sec or less.
Do this with the switch/key on
If the bike starts you just have to track starter circuit.
If it spins but doesn't even try to start, you'll need to check for spark at the plugs next.
If it doesn't spin at all, you'll likely have to pull the starter.
Do this with the switch/key on
If the bike starts you just have to track starter circuit.
If it spins but doesn't even try to start, you'll need to check for spark at the plugs next.
If it doesn't spin at all, you'll likely have to pull the starter.
Electrical Path for Spark:
a. Ground battery strap - Yeah it's old, yeah it rots (condensation) under the cable to frame and that rust is a main look see when age times having the washer/drier in the same room with the BD's cable sitting in that wet vapor times up to the cable end being next.
b. Cable ground to battery post = If you remember 'magnetism: you cannot separate heat from its chemical reaction'; where you have this white powder sitting under the battery post to cable end and this is a flow source that stops the flow to ground.
c. Positive cable to keyfob: Make it easy [theory wise] so you have this toggle switch that breaks (+) to one side of the switch. The other side of the wire goes to the coil.
d. The Black Box/Points - This is where a second wire feeds off the same coil side [from the key switch] and now this wire leads to the points/ECU = Spark.
Conclusion walking the Troubletree:
1. My ground cables and battery posts need a petroleum jelly type oxidizing inhibitor; to keep the flow moving.
2. My hot side is to prong the wire going to the key switch. I turn the key on and prong the out going tangs for (+).
3. I move to the coil [with key on] and probe this wire; feel for [tight] screw/nut/ wire eyelet integrity.
4. I move to the black box and back-probe the (+) wire going into the unit.
5. I have (+) going to the black box and no spark = ECU... OR...
... Optional:
Where chain meets boat anchor. Because without the crank pickup, it's either the ECU/coil or the Crank Sensor = Gone Fishing.
Why go thru all thishit when you can look for the round steel dowel on the [rotor] at the end of the cam; line up the dowel under the magnetic pickup; pull a plug wire; use an old plug and install it; ground it to the head; key on; take a tiny screwdriver and touch the magnet and dowel so both make contact with the screwdriver; break the tip of the screwdriver away from the magnetic pull and then make contact again; looking for spark.
a. Ground battery strap - Yeah it's old, yeah it rots (condensation) under the cable to frame and that rust is a main look see when age times having the washer/drier in the same room with the BD's cable sitting in that wet vapor times up to the cable end being next.
b. Cable ground to battery post = If you remember 'magnetism: you cannot separate heat from its chemical reaction'; where you have this white powder sitting under the battery post to cable end and this is a flow source that stops the flow to ground.
c. Positive cable to keyfob: Make it easy [theory wise] so you have this toggle switch that breaks (+) to one side of the switch. The other side of the wire goes to the coil.
d. The Black Box/Points - This is where a second wire feeds off the same coil side [from the key switch] and now this wire leads to the points/ECU = Spark.
Conclusion walking the Troubletree:
1. My ground cables and battery posts need a petroleum jelly type oxidizing inhibitor; to keep the flow moving.
2. My hot side is to prong the wire going to the key switch. I turn the key on and prong the out going tangs for (+).
3. I move to the coil [with key on] and probe this wire; feel for [tight] screw/nut/ wire eyelet integrity.
4. I move to the black box and back-probe the (+) wire going into the unit.
5. I have (+) going to the black box and no spark = ECU... OR...
... Optional:
Where chain meets boat anchor. Because without the crank pickup, it's either the ECU/coil or the Crank Sensor = Gone Fishing.
Why go thru all thishit when you can look for the round steel dowel on the [rotor] at the end of the cam; line up the dowel under the magnetic pickup; pull a plug wire; use an old plug and install it; ground it to the head; key on; take a tiny screwdriver and touch the magnet and dowel so both make contact with the screwdriver; break the tip of the screwdriver away from the magnetic pull and then make contact again; looking for spark.
Drayno
Member
Jersey Big Mike- Thank you. The starter does spin when hooked directly to 12V. Did not start but I didn't keep it connected for too long. Going to try and get some gas to carb then "slam" it again. Also have slam button coming soon.
Sven - Thank you. We need to ride someday, I am Dane, aka Viking.
When I turn ignition, headlight and speedo come on, so there has to be signal from battery to ignition switch, but no power to solenoid, so there has to be break between the two? I need to research options for bar-controls, rather do it right than have instant fix which fails again in future. Suggestions?
I need to test between fob and bar-control, still trying to figure that out without stripping wires.
Apologies this post has ran so long, shits been a mess. Micro-Burst (small tornado) hit neighborhood: house and truck got fukt, been getting my old car running for transport while truck in shop, helping neighbors piece houses back together, bike still sitting in stable. Will be digging deeper into the Dog rest of this week.
Thanks again,
Dray
Sven - Thank you. We need to ride someday, I am Dane, aka Viking.
When I turn ignition, headlight and speedo come on, so there has to be signal from battery to ignition switch, but no power to solenoid, so there has to be break between the two? I need to research options for bar-controls, rather do it right than have instant fix which fails again in future. Suggestions?
I need to test between fob and bar-control, still trying to figure that out without stripping wires.
Apologies this post has ran so long, shits been a mess. Micro-Burst (small tornado) hit neighborhood: house and truck got fukt, been getting my old car running for transport while truck in shop, helping neighbors piece houses back together, bike still sitting in stable. Will be digging deeper into the Dog rest of this week.
Thanks again,
Dray
Drayno
Member
Any help or ideas would be great.
New handle bar controls, installed slam button, and new Thunderheart.
1. Turn key
2. Speedo and headlight come on
3. Run then start, I still get nothing.
4. I hit slam and starter turns over.
5. At no time does the Thunderheart light up, new or old.
Still down and getting pissed. I am wondering if the circuit breaker fried, Ihave hit the button on bottom, but it never seems to click so I assume it it fine. Going to hard wire with fuse, hoping 30amp is enough?
Any other ideas? Been through all the wiring, can't swing another $800 for WSW ECH and wiring kit to get rid of the Wires Plus. Do WP+ crap out?
Thanks,
Guy with a headache.
New handle bar controls, installed slam button, and new Thunderheart.
1. Turn key
2. Speedo and headlight come on
3. Run then start, I still get nothing.
4. I hit slam and starter turns over.
5. At no time does the Thunderheart light up, new or old.
Still down and getting pissed. I am wondering if the circuit breaker fried, Ihave hit the button on bottom, but it never seems to click so I assume it it fine. Going to hard wire with fuse, hoping 30amp is enough?
Any other ideas? Been through all the wiring, can't swing another $800 for WSW ECH and wiring kit to get rid of the Wires Plus. Do WP+ crap out?
Thanks,
Guy with a headache.
Try to follow this. Since day one, you turn the key on and these are the lights that go on normally, right? If yes, I'm going to rule out the black box because it can cycle thru programs at the fob cycling and returns back to normal start LEDs with key on only. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Go to the starter motor, eye the cable up to the relay from the motor side. Hot side battery cable goes to relay. At those two points, WATT are the odds you find it.
It seems the board might be OK. I'd more chase grounds. Say there are two types of grounds: sensor grounds and 12v grounds like lights and power to the motherboard. Motherboard converts 12v to 5v and can you see maybe a group of grounds meet at a certain point or junction, or ground to frame? Some ground junctions are in the wire harness. These sometimes are taped up block? Say at that block that may be found along the main harness and could stick out on its own? You pull the tape back just enough to see the junction box and find heat melting the plastic off the wires? Sending hot to ground could have a no start effect... sometimes. So I'd chase grounds for heat related variables and tightness if frame mounted.
Once the relay is found I'd take a test light, push the start button, watch the light come on at the little wire off the starter relay.
a. Light comes on = You'd think the starter relay since you see power to trigger the magnet, the mag pulls an arm, the arm makes contact with the battery(+) cable to starter motor, and finally cable to motor. The slam works so wire flow from battery to motor is not the problem. Do we narrow it down to the starter relay?
(?)... does the bike come with some sort of safety switch where if the trans is left in gear? That would be a loop of its own to chase down. Say it's old school and has none. Where the relay has a second wire and knows when to light the box up, meaning, pull clutch in to start, have kicker up; and there are your loops of clutch to kick in some sort of safe mode.
b. Test Light does not come on = Not the relay per say. So it's back to the starter button and test light the one hot side of the switch, at the start button.
c. Multimeter needed for this test. And that is the test for a break at the wire from relay to start button. Better the battery is not in play so the meter does not touch the switch side wire, and/or too near the relay, messing with more hot areas spiking the meter and rendering it useless.
Brew
Troop Supporter
So something sounds pretty strange here. You have a wires plus installed correct? You also have a three position switch, yes? All you should be doing is turn the key to the first position and press start. If you press run it acts as a kill switch in which you wont get ignition. That's the way my wires plus is set up.
Drayno
Member
Yes and yes on WP+ and 3 position switch. I've had WP for about 5 years now, I need to go to 3rd position for lights to come on, always had to hit run before starter would turn. The more I dig into wiring the more it seems there are different options.
I did test green wire to starter and I get nothing when "start" button is pressed.
No safety switch for kickstand for sure, not sure on clutch, never tried to start it with clutch out that I can remember. Playing with it more tonight, bout to tear all the wires up and re-solder everything. Far as I can see all grounds go to 2 different parts of chassis, took all off and cleaned already. There are a few that are in a "block" so maybe something under the shrink tube.
How would you guys test at harness plugs? Do not want to come from outside and lose waterproofing, but not sure how to create connection with harness apart to test. Just looking for ideas that might work.
Thanks for input.
I did test green wire to starter and I get nothing when "start" button is pressed.
No safety switch for kickstand for sure, not sure on clutch, never tried to start it with clutch out that I can remember. Playing with it more tonight, bout to tear all the wires up and re-solder everything. Far as I can see all grounds go to 2 different parts of chassis, took all off and cleaned already. There are a few that are in a "block" so maybe something under the shrink tube.
How would you guys test at harness plugs? Do not want to come from outside and lose waterproofing, but not sure how to create connection with harness apart to test. Just looking for ideas that might work.
Thanks for input.
After 5 years I'm sure you know the sequence to starting. Brew knows the steps to starting, so I assume you have to follow those steps to start.
This is going to be off the wall, but what are the odds the bike starts, you disconnect the volt reg from the bike and see if it starts. For some strange reason, the blocks were burned out at those ground junction points at the harness, not the clump of wires to the frame. Showed the ground going to the volt reg to the ground box would heat up and shut the bike off. Those other grounds were part of the burn and showed no good ground integrity. So more or less I want to question these new remote grounds that are tied all together and not to the frame per say. Fucking computer bike harness setups bring the upsets. Just be careful not to upset the wrap. You're just looking for melted wires as close to that junction point of gathered grounds. Clean wires, then not at this junction.
Look for green chemical reaction at the pins. Copper is the best flow (non-magnetic meaning) so the coating is covering the copper pins. Still porous so the chemRE can stop flow. Those connectors can be submerged in vinegar. Watch the bubble begin and when they end, clean with water or first pour coke or pepsi on the pins and wash off with water. Air blow off the pins or let air dry. Computer pin wise, this calls for q-tips dipped in vinny and swab the green off those pins. Hold the pins down, black box up so the vin does not travel into the box.
What would happen if you took a jumper wire and ran a remote wire from battery(+) to the relay and will it set the starter in play? Then it's not the relay. It's no power from switch to relay. Make sense?