Baker or Karata Primary Belt Drive?
- Thread starter meyerld
- Start date
Bobby Schulz
Active Member
Kdub, Here are a few reasons....
1)No more primary fluid changes, or leaks as it is converted to a dry set up.
2)Finding neutral is super easy when comming to a light.
3)Much more easy to adjust the clutch or to do repairs.
4)Starter is no longer getting oil in it to cause problems if the seal goes bad.
5) VERY easy to check the bearings on the trans shaft that are common to go bad on the baker 6 speeds.
6) Sounds bad ass if you like the Karata belt drive sound (kinda like a old school 6-71 blower sound).
7)Get rid of the junk slipping clutch setup that come on these baker 6 speeds and is even worse at slipping if the bearingsin the trans start to go south.
Now for the negatives..
1) If you dont like the blower wine sound it may not be for you. (may want to get the baker belt drive version as it is much more quiet.
2) once the clutch plates/hub get a little wear on them they tend to chatter a little in neutral.
3)Belts can pick up rocks.
4)Belts can grab pants if you are not careful (note that you can get belt guards).
5) If you get a outside bearing support you will need to pull it off from time to time so you can clean out clutch dust.
1)No more primary fluid changes, or leaks as it is converted to a dry set up.
2)Finding neutral is super easy when comming to a light.
3)Much more easy to adjust the clutch or to do repairs.
4)Starter is no longer getting oil in it to cause problems if the seal goes bad.
5) VERY easy to check the bearings on the trans shaft that are common to go bad on the baker 6 speeds.
6) Sounds bad ass if you like the Karata belt drive sound (kinda like a old school 6-71 blower sound).
7)Get rid of the junk slipping clutch setup that come on these baker 6 speeds and is even worse at slipping if the bearingsin the trans start to go south.
Now for the negatives..
1) If you dont like the blower wine sound it may not be for you. (may want to get the baker belt drive version as it is much more quiet.
2) once the clutch plates/hub get a little wear on them they tend to chatter a little in neutral.
3)Belts can pick up rocks.
4)Belts can grab pants if you are not careful (note that you can get belt guards).
5) If you get a outside bearing support you will need to pull it off from time to time so you can clean out clutch dust.
ronson1977
Member
Would you mind sending me a quote for one, black and shipped to Dartmouth, MA?
karata
Member
Knowledge Base:
Notice to All:
Softail Center Distance = 12.8125"
FXR Center Distance = 11.3240"
BigDog Center Distance= 12.1999"
Only Mfg. & Designing Belt Drives in house for 39 years at our own location I cannot understand how one can install a Softail belt drive on a FXR without a 4.000" idler and a shorter belt to run at a drag strip or use a BigDog drive that we designed in 2005 and have it work on a FXR, by the way the other guy never has had made for him a FXR drive. Since this is the beginning of a new year let us all speak with truthful knowledge as to help one another with their problems.
Many of you members do not know that Karata mfg. racing transmissions in the early 1980's and we do know the disadvantages and advantages between Helical & Spur Gears,also the main failure of gear boxes is the type and quality of the steel purchased and also the HEAT TREATING of suck.
Happy New Year to All
Jim @ Karata
Notice to All:
Softail Center Distance = 12.8125"
FXR Center Distance = 11.3240"
BigDog Center Distance= 12.1999"
Only Mfg. & Designing Belt Drives in house for 39 years at our own location I cannot understand how one can install a Softail belt drive on a FXR without a 4.000" idler and a shorter belt to run at a drag strip or use a BigDog drive that we designed in 2005 and have it work on a FXR, by the way the other guy never has had made for him a FXR drive. Since this is the beginning of a new year let us all speak with truthful knowledge as to help one another with their problems.
Many of you members do not know that Karata mfg. racing transmissions in the early 1980's and we do know the disadvantages and advantages between Helical & Spur Gears,also the main failure of gear boxes is the type and quality of the steel purchased and also the HEAT TREATING of suck.
Happy New Year to All
Jim @ Karata
05ridgeback
Active Member
karata all the way :2thumbs:
Attachments
Vince81
Banned
I had the FXR Belt Drive,inner & outer primarys,outer bearing support and mounts Custom Made from Bert Baker .I apologise if the post was erroneous or misleading in details.I didn't say that It was a Baker Big Dog or Softail Belt Drive on it.Hope this clarifies the misunderstanding.
And a Happy & Healthy New Year to You as well
Vince
Vince81
Banned
The 0(ZERO) Offset on the BAKER Belt Drive is ONLY FOR 300mm Tires.
The Offset for the 250 mm tires is built into the inner primary plate.
BAKER Synchronous Belt Drives have 14mm tooth depth & Hardened Stainless Steel Pulleys -and are quiet ,strong and have a better torque coefficient than an enclosed primary produces.
The BAKER Synchronous Belt Drive has better contact in the peaks & valleys of the pulleys along with the deeper 14mm tooth depth(the ONLY Belt & Pulleys made like that *In The Industry* -along with Stainless Steel pulleys that resist wear and with a better longevity design & construction)- which equates into less noise-better belt contact & NO pulley wear.Stainless Steel Is Stronger & more Torque resistant than Aluminum which wears and deforms under hard & constant acceleration & De-Celleration scenarios.it's a proven Fact.
Aluminum pulleys are prone to Wear and can cause belt "lag" and thats the reason why BAKER Uses Stainless Steel Pulleys
Less Heat equals longer clutch wear and better performance - and an openn primary creates/produces Less Heat on the Clutch and other areas.
The clutch that the BAKER comes with is practically bulletproof - and Big Inch S&S Motors like the one on our BDMs come with wont harm or hurt it.
I only use BAKER Primarys and Transmissions -Drivetrains-they are the Finest Made units I've ever used.
And dont be fooled or disappointed by the 2.4" wide belt.It's plenty strong & produces less drag than a Real Wide Belt(BAKER Makes it in 2.4" For A Reason).Yes alotta people like the look of a wider belt-and thats ok on something for show-but a wider belt doesn't correlate into a stronger belt in terms of strength or wear factors. I ONLY USE BAKER Drivetrain for me & My Customers -and in the 11 years since I've been building Big Inch /High Performance Bikes with S&S Engines-I've NEVER had a failure or issue with BAKER or ANY of their products and individual components.
I stand behind what I sell ,use and Prefer-and so does BAKER.Unequivically and without doubt or nonsense-BAKER is the BEST I've ever used.
Vince
The Offset for the 250 mm tires is built into the inner primary plate.
BAKER Synchronous Belt Drives have 14mm tooth depth & Hardened Stainless Steel Pulleys -and are quiet ,strong and have a better torque coefficient than an enclosed primary produces.
The BAKER Synchronous Belt Drive has better contact in the peaks & valleys of the pulleys along with the deeper 14mm tooth depth(the ONLY Belt & Pulleys made like that *In The Industry* -along with Stainless Steel pulleys that resist wear and with a better longevity design & construction)- which equates into less noise-better belt contact & NO pulley wear.Stainless Steel Is Stronger & more Torque resistant than Aluminum which wears and deforms under hard & constant acceleration & De-Celleration scenarios.it's a proven Fact.
Aluminum pulleys are prone to Wear and can cause belt "lag" and thats the reason why BAKER Uses Stainless Steel Pulleys
Less Heat equals longer clutch wear and better performance - and an openn primary creates/produces Less Heat on the Clutch and other areas.
The clutch that the BAKER comes with is practically bulletproof - and Big Inch S&S Motors like the one on our BDMs come with wont harm or hurt it.
I only use BAKER Primarys and Transmissions -Drivetrains-they are the Finest Made units I've ever used.
And dont be fooled or disappointed by the 2.4" wide belt.It's plenty strong & produces less drag than a Real Wide Belt(BAKER Makes it in 2.4" For A Reason).Yes alotta people like the look of a wider belt-and thats ok on something for show-but a wider belt doesn't correlate into a stronger belt in terms of strength or wear factors. I ONLY USE BAKER Drivetrain for me & My Customers -and in the 11 years since I've been building Big Inch /High Performance Bikes with S&S Engines-I've NEVER had a failure or issue with BAKER or ANY of their products and individual components.
I stand behind what I sell ,use and Prefer-and so does BAKER.Unequivically and without doubt or nonsense-BAKER is the BEST I've ever used.
Vince
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JesseAFFA
Banned
I bought my Baker beltdrive's from Vince81 & they are the BEST unit's I've ever used (I bought 2 of them for my 06 & 07 Pitbulls).
I just re-read my shop manual that came with them and i was right ,they are stainless steel pulleys with a 14mm belt tooth depth and a 1 piece inner billet primary,outer primary,clutch basket & components.
(i had answered a post earlier where i couldn't remember if the pulleys were stainless steel)
I wouldn't use any other beltdrive except BAKER -they are the Best .
I just re-read my shop manual that came with them and i was right ,they are stainless steel pulleys with a 14mm belt tooth depth and a 1 piece inner billet primary,outer primary,clutch basket & components.
(i had answered a post earlier where i couldn't remember if the pulleys were stainless steel)
I wouldn't use any other beltdrive except BAKER -they are the Best .
liferider
Looking forward to retirement
Here is my most important question. Parts availability!!!!! If anything breaks on the external drive do both companies have parts availability or am I going to have to sit at home for 4-6 weeks because (at this time we are out of that part and will not be making a run on it for 3-4 weeks) that pisses me off when I spend my money on anything and was led to believe the product and the companies ability to back it with parts. Like bigdog did. They closed the doors and said by-by. Hummer H-2 and H-3's went out of business, BUT the Federal Goverment said, auto makers must keep on hand parts for at 10 yrs and can NOT price gouge the consumer. Plus the auto maker must warranty the vehicle. Chapter 11 is not allowed. Since Big Dog was a automotive vehicle manufacturer I am curious how they got arround that law. I do know this because I have a H-3 Alpha and GM has to honor the 4 year 100k mile warranty on my 2010 model. And Hummer did file Chapter 11.
Attachments
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JesseAFFA
Banned
My BAKER Motor Plate is a 1(ONE) Piece unit .:2thumbs:
Thats 1 (ONE)
Yes it has a transmission spacer plate -I didn't miss anything ,my eyesight is perfect .:2thumbs:
Thats 2 (TWO)
And the 2 (TWO) BAKER Belt Drive's I bought which I am *Extremely Satisfied With* as far as Performance ,Build Quality, Ease of Installation ,Power & Cosmetic Looks are The Finest Belt Drive & Primarys made.
That seems to be an opinion that I share with thousands of others who use, buy and are happy with what BAKER sells.
I'd buy BAKER Drivetrain products again over anything else made and many others here and elsewhere agree with me.
Thats 1 (ONE)
Yes it has a transmission spacer plate -I didn't miss anything ,my eyesight is perfect .:2thumbs:
Thats 2 (TWO)
And the 2 (TWO) BAKER Belt Drive's I bought which I am *Extremely Satisfied With* as far as Performance ,Build Quality, Ease of Installation ,Power & Cosmetic Looks are The Finest Belt Drive & Primarys made.
That seems to be an opinion that I share with thousands of others who use, buy and are happy with what BAKER sells.
I'd buy BAKER Drivetrain products again over anything else made and many others here and elsewhere agree with me.
JesseAFFA
Banned
I can tell you this much....I needed a transmission seal,quad seal and o-ring that are H-D compatable for my BDM transmission.I called the local h-d dealers all over CT and none of em had those seals in stock.I Called BAKER and they not only had em-but they directed me to Vince81 and his shop about 14 miles from me(thats how I came to buy the 2 BAKER Beltdrives)-Vince had the seals and saved me $11.00 over what h-d was charging for them-thats rediculous as far as I'm concerned! I ordered stuff from BAKER in the past that was in stock and ready to ship-and got to my garage in 2 days shipped from Michigan(I had my BDM transmission rebuilt from a BDM dealer here who closed his doors)-BAKER had all the parts in stock & at a substantial savings overthe dealers prices.Are they(dealers) allowed to have such a dramatic $ difference than going direct to BAKER???
Adrian2551
Member
I have a Karata 4" with no OBS and have had no issues. I looked at some bikes with 3" belts and figured if I was spending the money, then I wanted the more aggressive look of the 4". I don't think it is too loud at all. In fact, I had hoped it would be louder. There are no issues with comfort. With no OBS you just need to make sure your pants don't get caught in the belt. Where ever I take it it gets a lot of looks and compliments. :2thumbs:
Vince81
Banned
Seeing as there is no BAKER primary available for you ,I personally would go BDL as it's got a 1 piece motor plate-but you'll still need an offset collar in the appropriate thickness .The last 2004 chopper I had in the shop had an offset of 1-7/16" ths as Moespeeds replied earlier.
Vince
karata
Member
Knowledge Base:
Spacer blocks (2) between plate and trans at 4 bolt pattern is 1.193" thickness
Spacer block (1) between Trans and Plate at Starter area is 1.193" thickness
Billet Plate (1) from engine to trans
Total Pieces (4) WITHOUT OFFSET***
Spacer Ring (1) if needed for offset at engine
Total Pieces (5) WITH OFFSET
BE IT BE KNOWN TO ALL WE ARE NOT DEGRADING ANY OTHER BELT DRIVES JUST TRYING TO SET THE RECORDS CORRECT AND IF I STATE IT IS A TWO OR 4 OR 5 PIECE BILLET PLATE THEN YOU CAN PUT YOUR MONEY ON IT>
Jim Longo
Karata
Not to start any Wars on Knowledge but the BDL Open Drive is a 4 piece Plate and if a offset is required then it becomes a 5 piece plate.
Spacer blocks (2) between plate and trans at 4 bolt pattern is 1.193" thickness
Spacer block (1) between Trans and Plate at Starter area is 1.193" thickness
Billet Plate (1) from engine to trans
Total Pieces (4) WITHOUT OFFSET***
Spacer Ring (1) if needed for offset at engine
Total Pieces (5) WITH OFFSET
BE IT BE KNOWN TO ALL WE ARE NOT DEGRADING ANY OTHER BELT DRIVES JUST TRYING TO SET THE RECORDS CORRECT AND IF I STATE IT IS A TWO OR 4 OR 5 PIECE BILLET PLATE THEN YOU CAN PUT YOUR MONEY ON IT>
Jim Longo
Karata
Trainguy
Chromeoholic
:2thumbs::2thumbs::2thumbs::2thumbs:
JesseAFFA
Banned
Again for the RECORD:
MY BAKER SYNCHRONOUS BELTDRIVE WITH THE ONLY 14MM TOOTH DEPTH OF BELT, PULLEYS and COMPONENTS In The Industry Along With: The ONLY STAINLESS STEEL PULLEYS & CLUTCH BASKET IN THE INDUSTRY-And The BEST Longevity & Performance Record Of OPEN BELT Primarys & Transmissions Available-AND The FINEST Product Development,Warranty,Service and Performance Arena's We Are Talking About (in The Industry again....) Has a 1(ONE) Piece Motor Plate.
No Argument-JUST THE PLAIN FACTS and explained To ME By Baker themselves TODAY>
**1 PIECE MOTOR PLATE.....1 PIECE as in ONE (1) PIECE**
Again: A ONE PIECE MOTOR PLATE with the ZERO("0") OFFSET
Take THAT To the Bank Of AMERICA...It's From BERT BAKER & His Staff Verbatim(thats In Person and Word for Word on the phone with them in Michigan)!!!!!!!!!
Dont argue or get into a pissing up a rope contest with me-I called & spoke with BERT BAKER Himself this afternoon,and I KNOW What I Bought,What Performs BETTER and Whats the Best Open Belt Primary.Thats why I BOUGHT 2 BAKER Belt Drives for my Big Dog 06 & 07 Pitbulls & would NOT BUY ANYTHING ELSE.Why is this a topic of argument here with those who sell other stuff....but rag on all other brands....?
Y'all can buy and endorse & use and run whatever y'all want....i Know What Works.
I and MANY Others Run BAKER BELT DRIVES and Are MORE Than Happy With The SUPERIOR PERFORMACE & QUALITY they provide & THE BEST Warranty and Longevity in The Industry.:2thumbs:
Now I'm gonna have a beer and rest my fingers
MY BAKER SYNCHRONOUS BELTDRIVE WITH THE ONLY 14MM TOOTH DEPTH OF BELT, PULLEYS and COMPONENTS In The Industry Along With: The ONLY STAINLESS STEEL PULLEYS & CLUTCH BASKET IN THE INDUSTRY-And The BEST Longevity & Performance Record Of OPEN BELT Primarys & Transmissions Available-AND The FINEST Product Development,Warranty,Service and Performance Arena's We Are Talking About (in The Industry again....) Has a 1(ONE) Piece Motor Plate.
No Argument-JUST THE PLAIN FACTS and explained To ME By Baker themselves TODAY>
**1 PIECE MOTOR PLATE.....1 PIECE as in ONE (1) PIECE**
Again: A ONE PIECE MOTOR PLATE with the ZERO("0") OFFSET
Take THAT To the Bank Of AMERICA...It's From BERT BAKER & His Staff Verbatim(thats In Person and Word for Word on the phone with them in Michigan)!!!!!!!!!
Dont argue or get into a pissing up a rope contest with me-I called & spoke with BERT BAKER Himself this afternoon,and I KNOW What I Bought,What Performs BETTER and Whats the Best Open Belt Primary.Thats why I BOUGHT 2 BAKER Belt Drives for my Big Dog 06 & 07 Pitbulls & would NOT BUY ANYTHING ELSE.Why is this a topic of argument here with those who sell other stuff....but rag on all other brands....?
Y'all can buy and endorse & use and run whatever y'all want....i Know What Works.
I and MANY Others Run BAKER BELT DRIVES and Are MORE Than Happy With The SUPERIOR PERFORMACE & QUALITY they provide & THE BEST Warranty and Longevity in The Industry.:2thumbs:
Now I'm gonna have a beer and rest my fingers
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