Starter just spins, never engages the engine

[ChopperJeff]

Went to start the bike yesterday (2007 K9), and the starter just spins, making a high pitched whine and it never engages the engine.
After many attempts it finally started, but upon shutting down and trying again, it went back to just spinning.
Is this a starter clutch issue?

Really sucks as this starter is only two months old and purchased from Big Dog Parts Kingpin, and it is also their more expensive "new and improved" one.

However, is it possible there's an issue with the ring gear? I mean, aside from it perhaps missing a tooth or some teeth. Obviously if the starter's pinion gear is on a spot on the ring gear where there's a missing tooth, then it will not engage and just spin.

 

[john sachs]

It can be the starter clutch. Maybe the bolt broke, or backed out. Or the starter clutch is assembled wrong, if it's more than a one piece assy.

 

[ChopperJeff]

Guess I could just pop the primary cover off and take a look at it while it's trying to start. A Google search had people mentioning the clutch basket bolts being sheared off. I don't see how that would cause the starter to not engage the engine, as the clutch is just connecting the output of the primary to the tranny, correct?

 

[Mr. Wright]

Guess I could just pop the primary cover off and take a look at it while it's trying to start. A Google search had people mentioning the clutch basket bolts being sheared off. I don't see how that would cause the starter to not engage the engine, as the clutch is just connecting the output of the primary to the tranny, correct?

That was a common problem on the 04's. You will know more once the cover is off.

 

[john sachs]

Guess I could just pop the primary cover off and take a look at it while it's trying to start. A Google search had people mentioning the clutch basket bolts being sheared off. I don't see how that would cause the starter to not engage the engine, as the clutch is just connecting the output of the primary to the tranny, correct?

Be careful doing that. The outer primary sometimes supports the end of the starter gear.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

Guess I could just pop the primary cover off and take a look at it while it's trying to start. A Google search had people mentioning the clutch basket bolts being sheared off. I don't see how that would cause the starter to not engage the engine, as the clutch is just connecting the output of the primary to the tranny, correct?

Well if the bolts are sheared the gears may not mesh up any more since they are free to float.
Also it would spin the clutch but not transmit the spin to the engine so it would not turn over.

 

[ChopperJeff]

But if the bolts are sheared, wouldn’t that mean that if the motor somehow managed to start, then no power would get to the tranny? Guess I really don’t understand how the whole power train functions.

 

[HMAN]

Pull the primary cover off n stop guessing. It may be nothing more than the starter bolt backing out? Its sometimes the simple but not always.

 

[ChopperJeff]

Interesting. Starter bolt backing out. Yeah, I should just rank the primary cover and take a look. Easy enough to do.

 

[john sachs]

Interesting. Starter bolt backing out. Yeah, I should just rank the primary cover and take a look. Easy enough to do.

Especially if the lock tab is missing, or the ends have sheared off.

 

[Mickmorris]

Especially if the lock tab is missing, or the ends have sheared off.

Happened to me at the gas pump @ 7-11. Somehow the locking tab broke off & the jackshaft bolt backed out enough to let the gear get past the flywheel. Ended up pushing the vintage sport home about a mile…

 

[ChopperJeff]

The tech has determined that the left side main shaft bearing is bad, allowing the clutch basket assembly to push away from the starter pinion causing it to misalign and spin against the ring gear.
Now need a new pinion gear, ring gear and gear/basket.
Also need left side transmission main and counter shaft bearings and all related gaskets.

Amazing how many issues this bike has had! How could all this go wrong with a bike that only has 22,000 miles on it?
I say “all this” as previously the bike got fixed because it had a bad main transmission bearing, seal, and a bad rear wheel bearing, leaking starter, broken exhaust pipe bracket, and broken bolt in the primary that goes to the adjuster shoe.

As for the clutch basket, I’m wondering if I should just go ahead at this point and do the easy pull clutch thing with the 9 clutch plates. Seems that the extra cost at this point would not be that much more as they are already in there.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

The tech has determined that the left side main shaft bearing is bad, allowing the clutch basket assembly to push away from the starter pinion causing it to misalign and spin against the ring gear.
Now need a new pinion gear, ring gear and gear/basket.
Also need left side transmission main and counter shaft bearings and all related gaskets.

Amazing how many issues this bike has had! How could all this go wrong with a bike that only has 22,000 miles on it?
I say “all this” as previously the bike got fixed because it had a bad main transmission bearing, seal, and a bad rear wheel bearing, leaking starter, broken exhaust pipe bracket, and broken bolt in the primary that goes to the adjuster shoe.

As for the clutch basket, I’m wondering if I should just go ahead at this point and do the easy pull clutch thing with the 9 clutch plates. Seems that the extra cost at this point would not be that much more as they are already in there.

Makes me wonder if it got fixed correctly the first time. With that combination there is a lot that coulhve gone wrong.
With that description I would have thought that the clutch hub nut was not torques properly and it walked away from starter.
Have pictures taken of the inside of the primary cover when its apart -- be very interested,
Is the same shop working on itthis time as last time.
Ask the mechaninc to tell you the torque on the clutch hub nut

 

[ChopperJeff]

Makes me wonder if it got fixed correctly the first time. With that combination there is a lot that could've gone wrong.
With that description I would have thought that the clutch hub nut was not torques properly and it walked away from starter.
Have pictures taken of the inside of the primary cover when its apart -- be very interested,
Is the same shop working on it this time as last time.
Ask the mechanic to tell you the torque on the clutch hub nut.

Yes, I'm having the same shop work on it this time as last.

I don't know though that he ever removed the clutch hub nut before. I'll ask. Hate to point fingers though.
As far as I know, the last repair did NOT involve pulling the inner primary off, and no clutch work was done.

This tech is a good tech and even went through the Big Dog training at their Wichita place back when Big Dog was popular, so I know that he knows what he's doing. All that said though, he is only human, and anybody can make a mistake.

I'll talk with them today and get more info.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

Yes, I'm having the same shop work on it this time as last.

I don't know though that he ever removed the clutch hub nut before. I'll ask. Hate to point fingers though.
As far as I know, the last repair did NOT involve pulling the inner primary off, and no clutch work was done.

This tech is a good tech and even went through the Big Dog training at their Wichita place back when Big Dog was popular, so I know that he knows what he's doing. All that said though, he is only human, and anybody can make a mistake.

I'll talk with them today and get more info.

I ask because I don't know of a way to remove the transmission without pulling clutch and inner and outer primaries.
In my 08 K-9 manual chapter10, page 9 it says removeinner/out primary and references other chapter -- to pull inner the clutch has to be pulled.
Always makes me wonder when we are rightback to the area that was working on recently.

There's a link on here somewhere which i don't have handy at the moment but grab your self the service manuals for the BDM's and take a read through so you know what is involved on some of what is being done so maybe you can ask specific questions for your own knowledge without sounding like you are making accusations.

I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's doing, it just on the face of it with the little second hand info made me think about the possiblity of an oops.

 

[ChopperJeff]

Thankyou

I ask because I don't know of a way to remove the transmission without pulling clutch and inner and outer primaries.
In my 08 K-9 manual chapter10, page 9 it says removeinner/out primary and references other chapter -- to pull inner the clutch has to be pulled.
Always makes me wonder when we are rightback to the area that was working on recently.

There's a link on here somewhere which i don't have handy at the moment but grab your self the service manuals for the BDM's and take a read through so you know what is involved on some of what is being done so maybe you can ask specific questions for your own knowledge without sounding like you are making accusations.

I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's doing, it just on the face of it with the little second hand info made me think about the possiblity of an oops.

Thank you for your input! I‘ll take a look at the service manual so as to better understand this thing.

As for the inner primary being removed, I remember the tech telling me back when he first worked on it that he does not have to remove the transmission in order to replace the seal and main bearing. I’ll double check that though.

 

[Rottweiler]

Big Dog

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[Rottweiler]

That is a link to the manuals

 

[ChopperJeff]

My bike has been diagnosed as having a bad main shaft bearing which caused the clutch basket to move and misalign with the starter pinion gear. The misalignment caused the pinion gear to get stripped. Strange, as there was hardly any damage to the ring gear. The tech was amazed to see the pinion gear so stripped as he thinks the material of the pinion gear would be as tough as the ring gear.
Anyways, the repair will involve pulling the inner primary and replacing the main shaft bearing, along with all associated gaskets. He said the ring gear should also be replaced, which means the clutch basket needs to be replaced as it’s all one unit.
I’ve seen ring gears by themselves, but they are for model years 2002 to 2004. Perhaps the later models did make it as part of the clutch basket?