2006 K-9 No Spark

[RILUSI]

Hey all.
If anyone can help I would appreciate it .
I have a 2006 K-9 with the Gen II RIP wiring kit (been on bike for years). I am going to try to catch you all up with what I have done so far.
I recently rebuilt the top end.. Bike fired right up to heat cycle the motor... No problems.
Then I realized that my front brake lever was not triggering the brake lights. I pulled the handlebar control and found that I broke the brake light connector on the circuit board when I was just in there. I soldered the plug back in place.. put back together.
Brake lights now work both front and rear--- bike runs fine. I am feeling pretty cocky!
The next day I have an on & off spark issue... as in the bike will fire up some times and other times it will not.
Now I have no spark all the time. I am checking spark the old fashion way with both spark plugs grounded.
I pulled the handlebar control apart and unplugged the board to eliminate that as a suspect. Was thinking I messed up the run button or ?
Now I am manually triggering each of the wires with the ground (black) wire on the handlebar plug.
Everything works as it should when triggered. (Brake - Turn -Run - Off -Start)
When I trigger the red (Run) wire the red light lights on the module. When I trigger green (Start) wire it cranks over and the blue and yellow lights flash.
So to me everything is passing the tests.
I do have power at all 3 of the coil wires (check with a 12v test light). That doesn't seem correct.??
I tried a different coil just for fun. No change.
So...... if the red light lights when the key switch is on and the run wire is triggered as well as the blue and yellow flash when rolling over I am leaning towards the crank sensor. Is that a good assumption? Can I check the crank sensor? New one is a bit expensive to just buy and try.
I pulled the crank sensor and inspected the wiring .. it visually appears fine..
Is there something else I should check or try?
Thank You in advance,

 

[Mr. Wright]

Sounds like your crank sensor went bad. I've had to replace several in my shop the last couple of years. Most were intermittent problems.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Hey all.
If anyone can help I would appreciate it .
I have a 2006 K-9 with the Gen II RIP wiring kit (been on bike for years). I am going to try to catch you all up with what I have done so far.
I recently rebuilt the top end.. Bike fired right up to heat cycle the motor... No problems.
Then I realized that my front brake lever was not triggering the brake lights. I pulled the handlebar control and found that I broke the brake light connector on the circuit board when I was just in there. I soldered the plug back in place.. put back together.
Brake lights now work both front and rear--- bike runs fine. I am feeling pretty cocky!
The next day I have an on & off spark issue... as in the bike will fire up some times and other times it will not.
Now I have no spark all the time. I am checking spark the old fashion way with both spark plugs grounded.
I pulled the handlebar control apart and unplugged the board to eliminate that as a suspect. Was thinking I messed up the run button or ?
Now I am manually triggering each of the wires with the ground (black) wire on the handlebar plug.
Everything works as it should when triggered. (Brake - Turn -Run - Off -Start)
When I trigger the red (Run) wire the red light lights on the module. When I trigger green (Start) wire it cranks over and the blue and yellow lights flash.
So to me everything is passing the tests.
I do have power at all 3 of the coil wires (check with a 12v test light). That doesn't seem correct.??
I tried a different coil just for fun. No change.
So...... if the red light lights when the key switch is on and the run wire is triggered as well as the blue and yellow flash when rolling over I am leaning towards the crank sensor. Is that a good assumption? Can I check the crank sensor? New one is a bit expensive to just buy and try.
I pulled the crank sensor and inspected the wiring .. it visually appears fine..
Is there something else I should check or try?
Thank You in advance,

Welcome from NJ,
Intermittent ignition is not uncommon and can be very difficult to find the cause. I'm just guessing from the info you provided that a good place to start would be to double check the RT control PCB. Repairing a wire was the last thing you did before you started having the ignition issue. This tutorial may help.

If still no luck after that, keep in mind that a crank sensor can be very intermittent and their is no definitive way to be certain it's not the cause without replacing it with a known good sensor. Good news is, if it turns out not to be the problem, it's a good extra part to carry in your tool kit when your on a ride far away from home.

 

[SCC007]

Welcome from Mississippi. Follow the above to check the PCB, then a crank position sensor. Let us know

 

[RILUSI]

Thanks for the input. I removed the PCB and am doing exactly as the video. All wires when triggered function as they should.
I don’t have a spare CPS. Can I get a universal for a Harley and just use the plug off my old one? The ones specifically for Bigdog are $150 ish.
a Drag Spec or Dennis Kirk one is 1/3 that price. Just incorrect plug.
Really appreciate the advice.

 

[Mr. Wright]

Thanks for the input. I removed the PCB and am doing exactly as the video. All wires when triggered function as they should.
I don’t have a spare CPS. Can I get a universal for a Harley and just use the plug off my old one? The ones specifically for Bigdog are $150 ish.
a Drag Spec or Dennis Kirk one is 1/3 that price. Just incorrect plug.
Really appreciate the advice.

Yes. That will work

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

Just be very careful when you wire it up as I believe that you can fry it if wired wrong.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Keep in mind that the PCB itself could be shorting out the off wire.

 

[RILUSI]

Mike.. Might need some clarification on your reply.
I have the right hand PCB totally disconnected and sitting on the bench. In my thoughts it is out of the picture.
I am triggering the wires on the plug exactly as per the above video you attached.
Every wire I trigger with the ground wire in the plug functions as it should.
I am getting the red light and the flashing blue and yellow on the module by the battery.
I assume that takes the PCB totally out of the picture. Correct?
I don't plan on putting the PCB back in until I have it running. Am I correct with that plan?
Ordered a CPS.

Thank you

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Mike.. Might need some clarification on your reply.
I have the right hand PCB totally disconnected and sitting on the bench. In my thoughts it is out of the picture.
I am triggering the wires on the plug exactly as per the above video you attached.
Every wire I trigger with the ground wire in the plug functions as it should.
I am getting the red light and the flashing blue and yellow on the module by the battery.
I assume that takes the PCB totally out of the picture. Correct?
I don't plan on putting the PCB back in until I have it running. Am I correct with that plan?
Ordered a CPS.

Thank you

To clarify: when you trigger the functions manually you are testing the wires to the EHC. Consider the possibility that the PCB itself is shorted inside and actually triggering the OFF. With the PCB back in turn the key on and hit the ON/OFF switch a bunch of times to see if the red light on the ignition module is acting correctly with your selections. Keep in mind the PCB was the last thing played with before the failure.
I reread the initial summation of your problem and I can't be certain but I believe that the fact that your getting the blue and yellow lights to flash is an indication that the Crank Sensor is sending the signal. It could be that the ignition module is failing and not breaking the voltage to the coil to cause the spark. I've never done this myself but you could disconnect the crank sensor and see if the lights stop flashing as you crank the engine.

 

[RILUSI]

To clarify: when you trigger the functions manually you are testing the wires to the EHC. Consider the possibility that the PCB itself is shorted inside and actually triggering the OFF. With the PCB back in turn the key on and hit the ON/OFF switch a bunch of times to see if the red light on the ignition module is acting correctly with your selections. Keep in mind the PCB was the last thing played with before the failure.
I reread the initial summation of your problem and I can't be certain but I believe that the fact that your getting the blue and yellow lights to flash is an indication that the Crank Sensor is sending the signal. It could be that the ignition module is failing and not breaking the voltage to the coil to cause the spark. I've never done this myself but you could disconnect the crank sensor and see if the lights stop flashing as you crank the engine.

Mike;
Thanks for the info and help. Been a bit snowy here lately so it took a couple days for me to get to it.
Update:
So... The PCB is still off the bike and out of the picture. I pull the CPS out of the block (its clean) wipe it off and reinstall.
Next - Unplug CPS.. Key on...Trigger the Run and the Start wire.. Bike rolls over .. Red light on but no flashing Blue or Yellow lights. Plug CPS back in and try again .. Red on.. Blue and Yellow flashing. Out of the corner of my eye I notice the spark plugs are also sparking. WTF??? Bike now starts. Still have PCB on the bench though.

Reinstalled the right hand PCB and control. all the switches function as they should. Tried the Off/ Run several times and every time it turns the red light on and off as it should. Bike starts right up .. Red light on Blue and Yellow flashing.
Pulled those Pain in the ass covers off the ignition/ battery area and everything looks amazing and very well done.
Bike has the RIP Gen II kit on it from previous owner and appears to be in excellent order.

Did not get the new CPS I ordered yet.
Assuming I should change that? Any other thoughts suggestions please.
I believe its only a matter of time before the spark is gone again.

Currently looking for an anchor so once the ice melts I can give it the proper send off!
In the less than 2 years I have owned this K-9 ... It has busted the mainshaft in half which equals a complete transmission rebuild and then needed a top end.
Definitely a love hate relationship with this gal. I am happy it started though!

Enjoy.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

Mike;
Thanks for the info and help. Been a bit snowy here lately so it took a couple days for me to get to it.
Update:
So... The PCB is still off the bike and out of the picture. I pull the CPS out of the block (its clean) wipe it off and reinstall.
Next - Unplug CPS.. Key on...Trigger the Run and the Start wire.. Bike rolls over .. Red light on but no flashing Blue or Yellow lights. Plug CPS back in and try again .. Red on.. Blue and Yellow flashing. Out of the corner of my eye I notice the spark plugs are also sparking. WTF??? Bike now starts. Still have PCB on the bench though.

Reinstalled the right hand PCB and control. all the switches function as they should. Tried the Off/ Run several times and every time it turns the red light on and off as it should. Bike starts right up .. Red light on Blue and Yellow flashing.
Pulled those Pain in the ass covers off the ignition/ battery area and everything looks amazing and very well done.
Bike has the RIP Gen II kit on it from previous owner and appears to be in excellent order.

Did not get the new CPS I ordered yet.
Assuming I should change that? Any other thoughts suggestions please.
I believe its only a matter of time before the spark is gone again.

Currently looking for an anchor so once the ice melts I can give it the proper send off!
In the less than 2 years I have owned this K-9 ... It has busted the mainshaft in half which equals a complete transmission rebuild and then needed a top end.
Definitely a love hate relationship with this gal. I am happy it started though!

Enjoy.

The CPS sensor can fail due to being dirty -- It is a maintenance item to pull and clean that regularly (every oil change)
Search the HOW-TO for Gasman's how to service your BigDog.

While I never have had one fail, I do keep one with me in the parts kit when I am on longer trips! JIC

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Mike;
Thanks for the info and help. Been a bit snowy here lately so it took a couple days for me to get to it.
Update:
So... The PCB is still off the bike and out of the picture. I pull the CPS out of the block (its clean) wipe it off and reinstall.
Next - Unplug CPS.. Key on...Trigger the Run and the Start wire.. Bike rolls over .. Red light on but no flashing Blue or Yellow lights. Plug CPS back in and try again .. Red on.. Blue and Yellow flashing. Out of the corner of my eye I notice the spark plugs are also sparking. WTF??? Bike now starts. Still have PCB on the bench though.

Reinstalled the right hand PCB and control. all the switches function as they should. Tried the Off/ Run several times and every time it turns the red light on and off as it should. Bike starts right up .. Red light on Blue and Yellow flashing.
Pulled those Pain in the ass covers off the ignition/ battery area and everything looks amazing and very well done.
Bike has the RIP Gen II kit on it from previous owner and appears to be in excellent order.

Did not get the new CPS I ordered yet.
Assuming I should change that? Any other thoughts suggestions please.
I believe its only a matter of time before the spark is gone again.

Currently looking for an anchor so once the ice melts I can give it the proper send off!
In the less than 2 years I have owned this K-9 ... It has busted the mainshaft in half which equals a complete transmission rebuild and then needed a top end.
Definitely a love hate relationship with this gal. I am happy it started though!

Enjoy.

You have done a stellar job of troubleshooting. Unfortunately you seem to be stuck with an intermittent failure. You swapped out the coil so that's not it. The CPS and Ignition Module along with all the connections and wiring are left. I've never heard anyone on this site speak about an intermittent Ignition Module so I would have to suspect the CPS even though when you tested it the results indicated it was sending a good signal. Checking the wiring and re-seating the connectors may have done the trick but of course that is wishful thinking. Hopefully if it fails again you will get new clues to help you figure it out.

 

[RILUSI]

I think I am going to install the new cps and double check all the electrical connections then hope for the best.
Time will tell.
Thanks again

 

[RILUSI]

You have done a stellar job of troubleshooting. Unfortunately you seem to be stuck with an intermittent failure. You swapped out the coil so that's not it. The CPS and Ignition Module along with all the connections and wiring are left. I've never heard anyone on this site speak about an intermittent Ignition Module so I would have to suspect the CPS even though when you tested it the results indicated it was sending a good signal. Checking the wiring and re-seating the connectors may have done the trick but of course that is wishful thinking. Hopefully if it fails again you will get new clues to help you figure it out.

Mike .
Another update. I installed the new CPS. Bike fired up like it should. Started it several times.
Put everything back together nice and pretty and thought it was done.
Next day -- I now have no spark again and no blue and yellow lights flashing when it rolls. Just the solid red (that's new)...
Previously I always had the blue and yellow flashing regardless of spark or no spark.
Now I only get the red light on the ignition module when the run button is pushed.
Any wisdom?
Thanks

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Mike .
Another update. I installed the new CPS. Bike fired up like it should. Started it several times.
Put everything back together nice and pretty and thought it was done.
Next day -- I now have no spark again and no blue and yellow lights flashing when it rolls. Just the solid red (that's new)...
Previously I always had the blue and yellow flashing regardless of spark or no spark.
Now I only get the red light on the ignition module when the run button is pushed.
Any wisdom?
Thanks

Total bad news. The ignition module itself may be the issue. You have eliminated the CPS and coil from the system which leaves the ignition module itself or connections. The manual suggests that the best way to test the module is by troubleshooting to eliminate everything but the ignition module. I would triple check the wires and connections again before giving up. This link is for the module at WSW. You could call Curtis before ordering it for some expert advice. 619-823-8557

IGNITION MODULE PROGRAMMABLE ALL SINGLE FIRE BIG DOGS Big Dog Motorcycles Ignition Module Programmable 05 Up [00P-OT5012-BD] - $229.99 : WSW!, When The Road Is Your Trail

Big Dog Motorcycles Ignition Module Programmable 05 Up

wildsteedworx.com

 

[RILUSI]

Exactly what I thought.
I have a call and an email into Curtis already. I left a message when my trouble began. Today when I called voice mail is full so I emailed.
Also left a message for Josh at Gateway and Andrew at Barnes today.
Will report back once I figure anything out.
Thanks

 

[RILUSI]

Exactly what I thought.
I have a call and an email into Curtis already. I left a message when my trouble began. Today when I called voice mail is full so I emailed.
Also left a message for Josh at Gateway and Andrew at Barnes today.
Will report back once I figure anything out.
Thanks

So. I just went out. Unplugged everything from CPS to Ignition module. Plugged all back together now I have blue and yellow lights and spark. It appears when I unplug things something gets reset and I have spark for a bit.
The manual doesn’t show the RIP genII wiring kit I have.
any idea what this is?

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

So. I just went out. Unplugged everything from CPS to Ignition module. Plugged all back together now I have blue and yellow lights and spark. It appears when I unplug things something gets reset and I have spark for a bit.
The manual doesn’t show the RIP genII wiring kit I have.
any idea what this is?

take those connections off again and look for corrosion on the pins and broken (weak) wires (use ohm meter and flex the wires -readin should stay the same.) When you re-install the wires use dieletric grease to keep water out.

 

[HMAN]