Motor has Marbles

[Raywood]

When I returned from my Sturgis trip I made the final turn off the highway. At the Stoplight I pulled my ear buds out of my aching ears after two long days in the saddle. When I went to take off I heard this horrible noise coming from the motor. Bending down on either side of the bike I determined that the noise was from the carb side of the motor. Nothing noticable at idle but once I got up to 1500 - 2000 rpm the motor was making some loud noises like there was marbles in the rockers. No issue with throttling the bike or responsiveness. Sounded like something was broken in the drivetrain though.

Today after letting it sit in the garage for the last few days I took the rocker covers off and the pushrod tubes. I pulled the timing plug and cycled the motor over to TDC and let it sit for a while. No signs of anything abnormal in the rockers so far. As for the pushrods the two exhuast rods are tight and the two intakes are somewhat loose. Not loose enough to get any lateral movement out of them but easy to spin. The exhaust rods are snug.

My next step I guess is to remove the rockers and inspect the springs and see if I can see if there is a broken one. Then I can pull the pushrods and remove the lifters and inspect them.

Problem is I don't have a manual for the TP rockers and when I checked the TP site wouldn't you know it but they have no resources available for any help. So, the S&S motor manual I have says to find TDC to relieve the pressure off the lifters then remove the bolts and pull off the rockers. Guess it's the same for the TP's. The bolt patterns are different though.

I'm wondering if I don't find anything abnormal with the springs or lifters what then was causing the noise I was hearing?

Motor: 05 TP motor with 65,000 miles. Never opened up before not even for a pushrod adjustment. Plugs looked fine. Oil is clean (Amsoil). No other abnormalties. At last gas fill (60 miles before) I didn't hear any noises. I usually don't turn on my MP3 player till I get on the highway so I would have heard any noises if there were any. Again, I guess my trusy steed waited till I was almost home.

Any suggestions would be helpful and appreciated. Thanks

 

[chacha]

noise at steady rpm or under acceleration only?

Pick up some new gaskets since while you're in there you may decide to pull the heads to have them check or cleaned. Performance shop could check the springs on the head...

Good luck!

 

[mcgroom]

cam chain tensioner?

Got a street glide on the lift at home that the guy said about the same thing you did when his broke loose

53k on the odometer

 

[chaingunner]

cam chain tensioner?

Got a street glide on the lift at home that the guy said about the same thing you did when his broke loose

53k on the odometer

It's gear driven. Sounds like you need a good pushrod adjustment, it's recommended like every 5k. I'd say your a little over due.

 

[twowheel99]

cam chain tensioner?

Got a street glide on the lift at home that the guy said about the same thing you did when his broke loose

53k on the odometer

Sorry, no cam chain tensioner on this S&S motor, cam & oil pump and scavenger is gear driven. Raywood, check the rockers where the pushrods rides and check the rocker arm shafts really well, mine had some side play and some excessive noise before they replace the heads. The geomertry was so mess up on my that it egg shape the valve guides. Also tappets will bleed down or will get weak and cause a noise like you are describing. Keep looking until you find the issue, you don't want a major failure to destroy your cases. Good Luck and let us know what you find.....
2

 

[mcgroom]

Sorry, no cam chain tensioner on this S&S motor, cam & oil pump and scavenger is gear driven. Raywood, check the rockers where the pushrods rides and check the rocker arm shafts really well, mine had some side play and some excessive noise before they replace the heads. The geomertry was so mess up on my that it egg shape the valve guides. Also tappets will bleed down or will get weak and cause a noise like you are describing. Keep looking until you find the issue, you don't want a major failure to destroy your cases. Good Luck and let us know what you find.....
2

Thanks twowheel99 and chaingunner. Thats why I am on here every day.

I like learning new stuff.....:2thumbs:

 

[Dakotabos]

PM send buddy

 

[Vegas]

It would have been easier to duplicate the problem off the bike with a stethescope. I'm betting you ate up a lifter since they are due every 25k. That motor looks clean!

 

[Raywood]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Looks like I need to keep pulling it apart. I'll post some pics of the lifters when I get them pulled. I know I ignored/delayed lifter adjustment. I have the manual and it does state every 20-25,000 miles for adjustment/replacement. But the motor has been so problem free I just didn't want to as we say in the Navy "don't break whats not broken".
I do have a stereoscope so I can put it back together and listen to each component for any abnormalities.
Looks like I will pull the rockers and lifters and see what I find. I already have a set of gasket courtesy of LDO (thanks bud) so will post some pics later today of what I find.

Again thanks for all your suggestions.

 

[BadBrad]

Ray, Sometimes the source of a noise can be deceiving. Have you checked to see if your clutch nut has come off? I"m not sure what kind of sound that would make, but an easy check all the same. Also, I learned that after I had an exhaust valve break off mid stem, that the TP rocker boxes have geometry issues and don't strike "dead on" the valve stem. A broken spring in the head could result from that. Keep us posted. I've learned a lot in the few months I've been on here because of guys like yourself (and others) that have a lot of knowledge to give us newdogs.

 

[05chop]

You have a good point Brad about mid point valve break. The valve is friction welded mid point.Drag a magnet down the valve stem should not stick at mid point.If the valve breaks at mid point could be from valve setting is to loose.I have seen this failure mostly in solid lifter application.

 

[MARV]

It would have been easier to duplicate the problem off the bike with a stethescope. I'm betting you ate up a lifter since they are due every 25k. That motor looks clean!

agree

at ray's mileage he should just do a top end rebuild including lifters, cam and bushings.

send heads and jugs out and do the rest at home.

 

[chacha]

good luck Raywood -- we need a lifter replacement How-To!

 

[Raywood]

You have a good point Brad about mid point valve break. The valve is friction welded mid point.Drag a magnet down the valve stem should not stick at mid point.If the valve breaks at mid point could be from valve setting is to loose.I have seen this failure mostly in solid lifter application.

good luck Raywood -- we need a lifter replacement How-To!

agree

at ray's mileage he should just do a top end rebuild including lifters, cam and bushings.

send heads and jugs out and do the rest at home.

I haven't pulled the pushrods yet. I did get a .pdf file from TP on proper dis-asembly and re-assembly of the rockers. I'm leaning to a lifter also. My S&S manual says replacement every 20,000 - 25,000 miles and I'm at about 65,000 now and this is the first time the motor has been opened up.
Looks like my issue now is I'm going to have to take my lifter blocks down and have them measured for the replacement lifters. The tolerance is something like .0022 so I would imangine I would exceed that and have to get oversized lifters. Can't afford to do the whole top-end yet so will wait till the snow comes then send the stuff of to be done.
I'll do a "how-to" when I'm done as I've been taking lots of pictures and I have the TP files now that I can print out and put in my manual.

Thanks guys,
Ray

:2thumbs:

 

[Raywood]

I need to get this solved so I can attend the Kern River Run down in Kalifornia. It's a long two day ride down and last long trip of the summer.

 

[sh8kr]

Ray,
I had a compression relief disinagrate on Front Cylinder and sounded as you described. Have you looked at that area ?
SC

 

[Little-Boo]

You are in Luck Raywood, I replaced my TP top end with the S&S and have mine laying around collecting dust along with a pile of other used parts. I don't have the Rocker boxes, but I have the roller rockers and shafts. I also have the stock lifters, lifter blocks and cam, all came out of my 2006 Mastiff (117) this parts only have about 1500 miles on them, just about broken in and ready for some long hauls. If they fit and you can use them let me know and they are yours. I also have the stock heads, which also have about 1500 miles on them. Let me know on the other parts and they are yours. The heads I would let go for $200 shipped, they have the red stripe springs. I don't need any money up front your credit is good with me Bro.

Carlos :2thumbs:

 

[MARV]

You are in Luck Raywood, I replaced my TP top end with the S&S and have mine laying around collecting dust along with a pile of other used parts. I don't have the Rocker boxes, but I have the roller rockers and shafts. I also have the stock lifters, lifter blocks and cam, all came out of my 2006 Mastiff (117) this parts only have about 1500 miles on them, just about broken in and ready for some long hauls. If they fit and you can use them let me know and they are yours. I also have the stock heads, which also have about 1500 miles on them. Let me know on the other parts and they are yours. The heads I would let go for $200 shipped, they have the red stripe springs. I don't need any money up front your credit is good with me Bro.

Carlos :2thumbs:

SWEET!

get er done Ray! :up:

 

[BadBrad]

Little-Boo definitely stepping up to the plate and showing what this site is all about. :2thumbs: No excuses Ray! Time to Git R Done!

 

[Chopper Dave]

You are in Luck Raywood, I replaced my TP top end with the S&S and have mine laying around collecting dust along with a pile of other used parts. I don't have the Rocker boxes, but I have the roller rockers and shafts. I also have the stock lifters, lifter blocks and cam, all came out of my 2006 Mastiff (117) this parts only have about 1500 miles on them, just about broken in and ready for some long hauls. If they fit and you can use them let me know and they are yours. I also have the stock heads, which also have about 1500 miles on them. Let me know on the other parts and they are yours. The heads I would let go for $200 shipped, they have the red stripe springs. I don't need any money up front your credit is good with me Bro.

Carlos :2thumbs:

Hell yeah! hats off to Carlos!:2thumbs: way to go bro!
now you will be GTG Ray!