Rear wheel misalignment

Mastiff Rider64

Well-Known Member
WOW, I hope you did well with the lawsuit. It's obvious that Extremecycles was totally disreputable but I have to add it seems like BDM was just as bad.
Well BDM was just wanting to make sure i wouldnt sue or go after another service center. Part of the settlement was that BDM ship my bike back to factory and rebuild it from ground up then paint it there. Extreme had to pay me for time lost, every monthly payment i made while it was in there shop, insurance payments, taxes and my lawyer fees, they also had to pay me for the mental stress and financial hardship. It was a little over $10,000
 

Jay Dawg

Member
I do think that played a part in it, but I also think design does too. Between the outter frame and the swing arm there is an adjuster it is hollow and on the end there is a hole that the bolt goes thru. between the frame and swing arm bushing technically theres nothing there to support the bolt. This was an issue years ago and it was causing pivot bolts to snap, then big dog did a recall on them and put hardened ones in, that were stronger, but there being no support is still an issue.

problem is that threaded adjuster on the right upright which is used to shim the swingarm. the ID of the adjuster isnt close to the OD of the bolt. giving it room to flex and break.
View attachment 75802

See the gap in the male part of the adjuster where the bolt goes thru, it isn't a snug fit and allows bolt to flex, same for the female part of the adjuster the hole is bigger than the bolt.
View attachment 75803
This is used to shim the rear swing arm also so there is a lot of stress on it and then you have the stress on the bolt from this and the flex every time your belt is pulling on the rear pulley.
I have been looking everywhere for this picture. Was the sleeve and bushing threaded? It’s hard to tell from the picture, looks galled, probably why mine is chewed up on the outside of the sleeve, either trying to adjust it or get it off. Do you know if these sleeves are available anywhere in case I need to replace mine. I spent Last night documenting all the clearances between the tire/swing arm/frame. after doing I believe my swing arm needs to move the left 1/4 inch. I noticed another area to wat h clearances is between the oil tank
I do think that played a part in it, but I also think design does too. Between the outter frame and the swing arm there is an adjuster it is hollow and on the end there is a hole that the bolt goes thru. between the frame and swing arm bushing technically theres nothing there to support the bolt. This was an issue years ago and it was causing pivot bolts to snap, then big dog did a recall on them and put hardened ones in, that were stronger, but there being no support is still an issue.

problem is that threaded adjuster on the right upright which is used to shim the swingarm. the ID of the adjuster isnt close to the OD of the bolt. giving it room to flex and break.
View attachment 75802

See the gap in the male part of the adjuster where the bolt goes thru, it isn't a snug fit and allows bolt to flex, same for the female part of the adjuster the hole is bigger than the bolt.
View attachment 75803
This is used to shim the rear swing arm also so there is a lot of stress on it and then you have the stress on the bolt from this and the flex every time your belt is pulling on the rear pulley.
The adjuster/shim that That you show here, is that sleeve threaded for that bushing, I can’t tell from the photograph but if that was threaded it looks galled. I think that’s probably why mine is all chewed up somebody has tried to either adjust and it wouldn’t move or take that bushing out of that sleeve because mine is chewed up very badly. My 2006 mastiff needs to have its swingarm moved to the left about a quarter of an inch and that should realign everything. I’ve checked clearance is between the tire/rim swing arm, frame, oil tank, it appears that the only relationship that needs to change in these parts is for my swingarm to be moved to the left as you’re standing behind a bike looking forward. I’m going to include some photos so you can see what I’m dealing with, my swingarm is currently in a Hardtail mode with no movement in any direction it is completely locked.
 

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Mastiff Rider64

Well-Known Member
Ok first I want you to loosen your pivot bolt, take the pressure off your swing arm. Then look at the picture attached and notice on the pivot bolt cover as I call it (black thing). There is a lip on the inside where your pivot bushing snap ring will rest in. The pivot volt cover should rest against or damn close to your swing arm. I noticed in your first picture that your pivot bolt cover isn't even all the way to your pivot bushing. Meaning when you torque down your pivot shaft bolt, you are pulling your swing arm to the right. Misaligning it and putting that bushing in a bind which won't allow your swing arm to freely move. I'm at work at the moment so I can't take pictures of mine right now. Also I'm pretty sure you can no longer buy this item. In 2006 Deytec was making the frames for the 06 Mastiff, in 07 Bigdog started making the frames for the Mastiff, hints one reason they went to a 300mm back tire. Also it fixed the one large one small shock situation also. You could always have one made if it came down to it. Now another thing you need to see about is your 2 piece pivot shaft. When you tighten it you just want it finger tight. I know it has flat spots on both the threaded rod and the piece that screws on the threaded rod, but do not over tighten reason being, it rest against the pivot bushing on the inside of the the swing arm. If over tightened it will not allow bushing to move freely. 5906163582_4d664930ec_k.jpg
 

Jay Dawg

Member
Ok first I want you to loosen your pivot bolt, take the pressure off your swing arm. Then look at the picture attached and notice on the pivot bolt cover as I call it (black thing). There is a lip on the inside where your pivot bushing snap ring will rest in. The pivot volt cover should rest against or damn close to your swing arm. I noticed in your first picture that your pivot bolt cover isn't even all the way to your pivot bushing. Meaning when you torque down your pivot shaft bolt, you are pulling your swing arm to the right. Misaligning it and putting that bushing in a bind which won't allow your swing arm to freely move. I'm at work at the moment so I can't take pictures of mine right now. Also I'm pretty sure you can no longer buy this item. In 2006 Deytec was making the frames for the 06 Mastiff, in 07 Bigdog started making the frames for the Mastiff, hints one reason they went to a 300mm back tire. Also it fixed the one large one small shock situation also. You could always have one made if it came down to it. Now another thing you need to see about is your 2 piece pivot shaft. When you tighten it you just want it finger tight. I know it has flat spots on both the threaded rod and the piece that screws on the threaded rod, but do not over tighten reason being, it rest against the pivot bushing on the inside of the the swing arm. If over tightened it will not allow bushing to move freely. 88B63193-6433-4235-BC11-5B4239DC41AE.jpegB625DDE6-B263-4433-AAA9-88794FD6992C.jpegView attachment 104074
I’ve not really talked or communicated with anybody but you that seems to have a grasp of exactly what I’m facing here. That ”black thing” appears to be called “ frame adjuster” in the service manual, although strangely enough in their parts diagram it is not even referenced. I have not disassembled the swingarm, nor I have even removed the shocks for a couple of reasons, i am trying obtain all the consumable parts that may be damaged before I start and because what I have is an OTC lift and I don’t want to tie up a bunch of space for something immovable but I’m not sure I can do everything that I need to do with that lift. Any input on this would be appreciated 58E6A850-4262-43BA-93E2-BAC934E69A6C.jpeg
 

Jay Dawg

Member
I’ve not really talked or communicated with anybody but you that seems to have a grasp of exactly what I’m facing here. That ”black thing” appears to be called “ frame adjuster” in the service manual, although strangely enough in their parts diagram it is not even referenced. I have not disassembled the swingarm, nor I have even removed the shocks for a couple of reasons, i am trying obtain all the consumable parts that may be damaged before I start and because what I have is an OTC lift and I don’t want to tie up a bunch of space for something immovable but I’m not sure I can do everything that I need to do with that lift. Any input on this would be appreciated View attachment 104103
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Mastiff Rider64

Well-Known Member
This another concern, on the left side of the swing arm it appears the bearing is not fully seaTed into the swing arm. Looking forward to seeing your pics to show me how it’s supposed to look. View attachment 104111
Well this picture by itself tells me something is not correct. That snap ring should be firmly against the swingarm. you may have to pull the whole swingarn off and replace those bushings. Sorry no pictures today I work third and and woke up late today and didn't have time to take pictures for you today but I will. As far as your jack goes no I wouldn't trust doing this job on that kind of jack. Not unless you can secure the bike somehow. But you will have to remove your shocks from the swingarm at least to get all this back right, then you'll need to adjust your shocks for the right ride height also. I actually have a harbor freight lift table and a ball screw jack that fits under the bike and lifts just the rear tire off the table by the frame tubes under the bike. at least that's what I used when doing mine. I have seen someone put a floor jack with a 2x4 under the motor and lift just the rear tire but I'm sure the front end was tied down and stable somehow.
 

Jay Dawg

Member
Well this picture by itself tells me something is not correct. That snap ring should be firmly against the swingarm. you may have to pull the whole swingarn off and replace those bushings. Sorry no pictures today I work third and and woke up late today and didn't have time to take pictures for you today but I will. As far as your jack goes no I wouldn't trust doing this job on that kind of jack. Not unless you can secure the bike somehow. But you will have to remove your shocks from the swingarm at least to get all this back right, then you'll need to adjust your shocks for the right ride height also. I actually have a harbor freight lift table and a ball screw jack that fits under the bike and lifts just the rear tire off the table by the frame tubes under the bike. at least that's what I used when doing mine. I have seen someone put a floor jack with a 2x4 under the motor and lift just the rear tire but I'm sure the front end was tied down and stable somehow.
Agreed, I’ve already got the new bearings I plan to replace those, I got a new axle shaft and adjustment cap, I got a hold of Donna at HDM. I told her I need the swingarm pivot bolt which I know for the 2006 are different than the later years, and the frame adjuster, I sent a picture of the one that you posted because she wasn’t familiar with that part and then told her where it was on the parts diagram even though it’s not listed, I have yet to hear back, but she’s going to talk to the guys about it. Did your Mastiff fit OK on that harbor freight table? Did you have to modify that harbor freight table to make it work? I really did not want to take up that much room in my garage but I may not have a choice because I am doing this work myself. And I’m not using a 2 x 4 with a floor jack. I really appreciate your assistance on this. I am still accumulating parts and now possibly a maintenance table, but I would still like to see the photographs of your bike when you get the opportunity. That distance on that left side bearing sticking out of the swing arm is about the distance that my swing arm needs to move to the left to be in the correct location. I’ve already purchased the narrowbody shocks for my softail Harley Davison, I’m gonna try it without revolving or putting in heavier duty oil, and then depending on the ride will depend on whether I pull those shocks back off and start modifying the internals by either Shipping or using heavier oil.
Thanks again for all your help, it’s nice to talk to somebody who’s been through what I’m looking at going through.
 

Mastiff Rider64

Well-Known Member
I did modify it some, but honestly you don't have to. I took the drive up ramp and cut it in half and welded the none curved side to the front of my table so I could mount my wheel chalk.
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And then I added atv ramps to each side with quick disconnects so I would have somewhere to place my feet while walking the bike up. I have steel bars bolted to the table that swing out and held in place with pins, then a tab the atv ramps attach to with quick connect pins. To drive up the ramp I have another set of atv ramps that are cut in half and where they meet the floor I cut them at an angle so they would set flush with the floor, and then 2 bolts in each ramp thru the flat area that meets the table to keep the ramps from kicking out from under the motorcycle as I drive up them and the ramps are bolted to one another also. Think with table and 2 sets of atv ramps and a little steel I may have a 1000 bucks tied up in my table? Then the other bike jack I think was about 200 off Amazon.
 

Mastiff Rider64

Well-Known Member
As far as the rear shocks go I bought a set from Cutis at wild steed worx and at the time not knowing my pivot shaft was broke, I thought they were very stiff. Well even after changing the pivot shaft and not realizing that my frame adjuster wasn't against the swingarm, it still was a hard ride, I went as far as putting progressive spring in my front forks to make it handle better and that didnt seem to work. After months of riding what seemed to be a hardtail and talking several times with Erik at HDM, I decided to bite the bullet and tear everything back down yet again and start from square 1. Because I knew my Mastiff rode so much better before . So while tearing it down I noticed the frame adjuster about a half to inch away from swing arm and as I was loosening my pivot bolt I seen the swingarm moving and the actual frame moving. And it hit me like a ton of bricks, the swingarm was in a bind, just like Erik and others had said. So I made a few adjustments to a few things. Like my pivot shaft, the screw on thing is actually on my belt side now, for 2 reasons if I ever need to adjust it I can reach in and do so with a small adjustable and 2 it made it easy to hold when screwing my pivot bolt in and making sure the shaft and this piece didn't turn after adjusting it to the bushings. Another thing I changed, since Curtis uses 20W and a preload washer in his shocks, I went to a 15W and left the preload washer. Still a hair stiffer than I remember it way back in the day but a hell lot better than the hardtail I was riding all summer.
 

Mastiff Rider64

Well-Known Member
Hey your in luck, found some pictures I took that I sent to Erik after I put my bike back together.
Here is the bushing on primary side from the primary side of swing arm. Notice the snap ring is againg the swingarm, noting of the bushing is exposed
20200712_140815.jpg
 

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Jay Dawg

Member
vp you got a very nice looking bike, I almost didn’t recognize it is a mastiff. Thank you for sending all the pictures and providing me with all the information, I can start my plan of attack. The only reason I found out about that swingarm is because I was looking at my clutch which requies an insane amount oh pull to get the clutch lever to disengage the clutch, I was checking out everything associated with the clutch when I noticed that when I raised the bike, the swing arm didn’t move even an eighth of an inch. I put the ass end on the ground with the fender off I grabbed the fender struts and put all my weight on the fender struts and the bike didn’t move one bit. The more I looked the more I found. I have a feeling that trend is going to continue as I work on this bike. When you worked on your bike on the platform what did you use to raise the bike to gain access to the swingarm and the shocks?
 

Mastiff Rider64

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the kind words about my bike but actually the red and black bike is a 2009 Bigdog Bulldog Anniversary Bagger. It's close to the Mastiff but has shocks like a Harley Dyna and a single arm swingarm.
Here is my Mastiff
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And if you look under the Mastiff in this picture you will see the jack I use to lift the rear end off the table lift.
20220624_143223.jpg
 
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