Stalling 5 minutes after start

[Rintintin]

With the help of several of you gents, I recently recovered from the loose clutch hub nut problem. After completing that, the bike ran and shifted better than it ever has (I bought it June 2022 from 2nd owner. I rode it a couple of times after that and then one day after stopping for lunch it starting misfiring a little on the way home. I made it home fine and thought that was odd. The next time I took it out, it started and was doing fine until about a mile from the house it started sputtering like it was in and out of power then just stopped. It would not restart. I sat in a strangers driveway for about 5 minutes and it restarted than stalled out again and died. I started coasting/pushing it home. I restarted it about 3-4 minutes later and it ran the rest of the way home.
I followed the charging system tests from the manual section 7 and everything seemed to check out with the stator and VR. I performed the start-up test on the battery and it seemed to fail. It dropped to 4 when starting and then bounced back. I ordered a new Deka. (I called the Batteries Plus number on the old Duracell battery and discovered it was made in 2014! - picture is attached.)

I installed the new battery and the bike cranks SO much faster. It started fine as before and voltage did not drip much upon start. I let it warm up a few minutes and went for a ride. It started out just fine. Was running great, then it stalled and died again just like before about 1/4 mile from the house. I pushed it back for awhile. It restarted and sort of ran for a second then died. I pushed some more, and tried again and it started and kept running, and I made it home.

Here's some more info:
- the plugs look ok
- I took the air cleaner off and did not see anything odd inside the carb.
- when I turn on the ignition, the speedometer needle goes straight down, then up to 20 then back to 0
- when I start the bike a red light is on under the seat on one module and three lights on the side of another module come on. Of those three, a red one stays lit, a green and blue flicker. Pictures of this under-the-seat activity is attached.
- checked the AC output per the manual and with the motor running it is putting out 19 - 19.9

I am not sure where to look next - I would greatly appreciate some ideas

Thanks

Dave
2006 Mastiff

 

[chubs]

Not an expert by any sense of the word, but you might check the fuel flow, I've seen a fuel petcock filter once that had tank liner flakes sucked up to it and held there until there was no more call for flow because
the motor was not running, and then they would fall off till the engine was running again and they were sucked up onto the filter again. May not be the problem, but doesn't cost anything to check. Just thinking about that, brings to mind a time I was disking a field before planting beans, and the darned tractor would run and pull just fine, and then just sputter and die. let it sit for a few minutes and she'd fire right up and run great. After about the fourth time of that happening, I siphoned all the gas out and discovered a single bean was in the tank, and would move around in the tank till it was right over the sediment bowel and then get sucked down like a check valve cutting off the gas. After the tractor died, the bean would float away from the outlet and things were fine till it happened again. (I bout went crazy because of one little bean!)

 

[knothead]

To be honest it sounds like the crank sensor is fixing to go out totally...everything you sayings leading me to believe that...but with that said i would check fhe ground down on the starter where it bolts to the primary and also double check connections under the seat to make sure everything is getting a good contact including the ehc connections...but if i was to make a bet i would bet on the crank sensor is going out

 

[bdm7250]

Loosen your gas cap, next time it happens, if you hear a rush of air your cap is not venting and thus stopping fuel flow. Also to note, you need to let the bike warm up to operating temperature before riding, don't fire the bike and rev it up this will foul plugs or blow your head gasket.

 

[chubs]

[QUOTE="knothead, post: 983902, member: 1471UHTo be honest it sounds like the crank sensor is fixing to go out totally...everything you sayings leading me to believe that...but with that said i would check fhe ground down on the starter where it bolts to the primary and also double check connections under the seat to make sure everything is getting a good contact including the ehc connections...but if i was to make a bet i would bet on the crank sensor is going out.
Well DUH !! Why didn't it register with me, having had it happen to me? My crank sensor went 10-0 on my 02 pit and acted like that. I called Mr.Wright and he hooked me up with a sensor and was back on the road again![/QUOTE]

 

[Mr. Wright]

All 3 of those are good places to check. Pull the right hand battery cover off an give us a picture of the EHC.

 

[Rintintin]

Thanks for the great ideas! Starting with the most recent, I took pictures of the EHC and ignition, but the forum is saying I can only upload 10 files. It was hard to get good pictures of the EHC, so if you need anything else please let me know.

From the descriptions in the manual, I'm guessing my EHC is

 

[Rintintin]

Well, that's weird. The forum wouldn't let me upload the files, then it just took them and submitted. Haha. I was saying I'm guessing my EHC is one of the modules listed on the first page attached on the right side as the LEDs do not protrude from the top of the potting material.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Always hard to tell if your crank sensor has gone south because of the intermittent nature it has. The tell is that when it cools off the engine will run again. Your coil could do the same thing but less likely. It's not a good policy to troubleshoot with parts but in this case you don't have a lot of choice. After your pretty certain your fuel is not the issue put a new crank sensor in and see if your fixed. If it's not fixed at least they are not too expensive and also not bad to have an extra in your stash.
The 06 Mastiff has a single fire ignition system which is like having two coils in one. Unless both sides went bad at the same time the engine could probably still fire on one cylinder which is why I said it's less likely to be your problem.
Good Luck

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

Always hard to tell if your crank sensor has gone south because of the intermittent nature it has. The tell is that when it cools off the engine will run again. Your coil could do the same thing but less likely. It's not a good policy to troubleshoot with parts but in this case you don't have a lot of choice. After your pretty certain your fuel is not the issue put a new crank sensor in and see if your fixed. If it's not fixed at least they are not too expensive and also not bad to have an extra in your stash.
The 06 Mastiff has a single fire ignition system which is like having two coils in one. Unless both sides went bad at the same time the engine could probably still fire on one cylinder which is why I said it's less likely to be your problem.
Good Luck

To troubleshoot intermitents that are heat related you need freeze spray to cool specific parts and see if that works.
Something like https://www.tequipment.net/Chemtron...pray&msclkid=01cda41544eb1e8d903ec7ec54e12c00
Do not go overboard you can over chill a part into failure mode as well.
When I was doing production test of memory systems in the 80's we went through this stuff like crazy.

 

[Rintintin]

The freeze spray is an interesting idea. I've ordered the crank position sensor. I'm going to be out of town most of time until it arrives, but if it is delayed, I may try that. I can use it to cool me down if it stalls again and I have to push it!

I'll follow up once the crank position sensor has arrived and is installed - fingers crossed. At least today I learned how to remove the battery covers and what a crank position sensor is
Stay tuned

 

[Mickmorris]

The freeze spray is an interesting idea. I've ordered the crank position sensor. I'm going to be out of town most of time until it arrives, but if it is delayed, I may try that. I can use it to cool me down if it stalls again and I have to push it!

I'll follow up once the crank position sensor has arrived and is installed - fingers crossed. At least today I learned how to remove the battery covers and what a crank position sensor is
Stay tuned

Gotta love it when you have such knowledgeable friends to help with such problems. These guys on this forum are the best! I’m sure you will have this figured out really soon. Keep us updated on your progress!

 

[Mr. Wright]

While you're waiting for that crank sensor to come in, Take the plugs off the EHC and clean them I'll and put some new dialectic grease on them.

 

[Minuteman]

Not trying to jump ahead with the crank sensor, but I replaced the crank sensor and still had the same issue. I did continue to track the problem and noticed that I was not geting spark and the ignition module was not idicating any power to the plugs. I replaced the coil assembly and the problem continued. I then replaced my ignition module and have not had a problem since. This is an unual way to track my problem, but you may want to take a look at the module. Just my experience from the cheap seat.

 

[Rintintin]

The crank sensor and the cleaning and regreasing of the EHC contacts did not help. After a nice warmup, it ran great then stalled and died at the end of my street again just like before. My neighbors are getting used to the show

I ordered a new ignition and coil from Donna. I am optimistic this will get my pup back on the road! I welcome any coil and ignition installation tips.

Have a great week!

 

[Mikeinjersey]

The crank sensor and the cleaning and regreasing of the EHC contacts did not help. After a nice warmup, it ran great then stalled and died at the end of my street again just like before. My neighbors are getting used to the show

I ordered a new ignition and coil from Donna. I am optimistic this will get my pup back on the road! I welcome any coil and ignition installation tips.

Have a great week!

This file may help you. How long does it take to restart? Have you taken your carb bowl down and looked for dirt (sticky float valve) and fuel flow from the tank? Have you removed the inside of the vent in your cap?
Look for visual issues with the coil like cracks or corrosion on the connectors especially the red wire which provides power to both sides of the coil. Even though you plan to replace both Ign and coil it would be good to know which was actually causing the issue so you can keep the good part for the future. Known good electrical parts are great for diagnosing intermittent electrical issues.

 

[Rintintin]

This file may help you. How long does it take to restart? Have you taken your carb bowl down and looked for dirt (sticky float valve) and fuel flow from the tank? Have you removed the inside of the vent in your cap?
Look for visual issues with the coil like cracks or corrosion on the connectors especially the red wire which provides power to both sides of the coil. Even though you plan to replace both Ign and coil it would be good to know which was actually causing the issue so you can keep the good part for the future. Known good electrical parts are great for diagnosing intermittent electrical issues.

I rebuilt the carb last summer, but I can take another look while I'm waiting on the parts. It usually takes 5-8 minutes before he will even fire. Sometimes he runs ok, sometimes he stalls again. Good Idea on the checking of the parts. The crank position sensor looked to be original and had some cracking on the wiring, but I guess it may be another good spare to put back.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

I rebuilt the carb last summer, but I can take another look while I'm waiting on the parts. It usually takes 5-8 minutes before he will even fire. Sometimes he runs ok, sometimes he stalls again. Good Idea on the checking of the parts. The crank position sensor looked to be original and had some cracking on the wiring, but I guess it may be another good spare to put back.

It does seem to be an electrical issue judging by your symptoms (starting after cool down). I agree it's still a good idea to check your fuel flow while your waiting for the parts. 1/2 hour piece of mind.

 

[Sven]

WATT is the battery voltage with no key on? WATT are the volts when idling?

 

[Rintintin]

WATT is the battery voltage with no key on? WATT are the volts when idling?

Hey Sven. I see WATT you did there (substituting Watt for What)

It sits at 13.0 with no key on, then goes to 12.8 with the key on, then idles at 13.6-13.8 at fast idle. I put a new Deke battery in it a couple of weeks ago.