Battery draw somewhere

S

Sven

Well-Known Member
There are 3 components in the charging loop. A voltmeter across the battery will show who has failed in the loop. By watching volt numbers you can pinpoint the downed component.

Battery: Volts means PUSH. So think of a starter motor needing to push the engine over. Ideal battery numbers are anything over 12.8v. So to see if the battery is holding up its job is to watch it drop in volts as you conduct a load test on the battery. If it drops past 11.1v being the ideal number, then it is considered not healthy enough to hold volts.

To see a good battery is to watch the voltage return to it's ideal 12.8v once the engine starts. Things like key on, the battery cannot hold the 12.8v having the taillight on, the current needed for the ECM, possible headlight on, this should sill maintain its 12.8 voltage. Key on, battery drops voltage is a sign of a deteriorating cell(s) in the battery.

Voltage Regulator: When the engine starts, the battery voltage immediately changes to 14.4v at idle. So to constantly watch the meter upon startup, you'll see the recovery number of 12.8v, then switches almost immediately to 14.4v at the meter. This rules out the VR being the problem child of the loop. If you saw 15v+ at the meter, it shows straight stator voltage direct to battery. This will cook or overheat the battery to cause a bulge of the battery case, to boiling the acid and can smell that sulfur odor showing a failed VR.

Stator: By looking at the whole starting procedure, exposing those (ideal) meter values, the battery shows no change upon its recovery number of 12.8v, remains that constant no matter it idling or revving to show a higher output number, it shows the battery can recover, it shows the VR is good, but shows that stator is at fault of recharging the battery.

So the correct voltage sequence of watching the meter goes something like this:
12.8v = Fully charge, key on.
11.1v = Load test of the battery.
12.8v = The recovery number when engine starts up, starter button released.
14.4v = The VR immediately kicks in and no longer is above that number (give or take).

A. Meter read of who is at fault in the charging loop:
12.8v = A static number with no load.
10 - 9v = A battery being load tested via starter motor.
12.1v = The recovery number of the battery no longer stores PUSH.
14.7v = Shows VR is trying to replenish the bad battery so both stator and VR are good, battery is the problem.

B. Voltage Regulator:
12.8v = Key on, no load.
11.1v = Load test.
12.8v = Battery recovery number shows good.
15v+ = VR can no longer regulate AC voltage.

C. Stator:
12.8v = Static number, key on.
11.1v = Starter load number.
12.8v = Recovery number.
12.8v = Stator cannot produce AC show stator is burned out.

Signed,
NOLTT
 
Chong

Chong

U-238
Welcome from Michigan!!

Be patient and you'll get thru this .

I had charging issue and the oem curcuit breaker was intermittently cutting out . Hence a trouble shooting struggle.
Replaced with fuse .

Stator output was within spec .

Using fuse is preferred since oem curcuit breaker will let voltage spikes thru which is a death sentence to your ECU .

Sounds like your on the way to solving this .

Best solution.. get 2nd dog . It eliminates down time blues . And hurry up fixes ..

Did I mention I'm a impatient person ? ! hehe
 
awg

awg

Guru
I just put in a new stator on my 06 Mastiff. Bought it from Ebay. A stock BD stator. 32amp. The stator nut was loose on mine so no impack gun was needed. I did buy a primary drive locking tool and a 1/2" drive 33mm 6 point socket. Made the job alot easier. Bought my stator from shovelheadkicker.
 
Jersey Big Mike

Jersey Big Mike

100K mile club
Chong said:
Using fuse is preferred since oem curcuit breaker will let voltage spikes thru which is a death sentence to your ECU .
Click to expand...
I understand many people prefer fuses on their bikes. One legit reason is self-resetting breakers will allow an intermittent issue to potentially cause damage but a FUSE is not a surge or spike protector and a voltage surge will PASS thru a fuse.

The fuse LIMITS the CURRENT not the voltage of what passes through (actually a bit of a combo really).

Basically when the circuit draw X+ current the fuse overheats and breaks, so 12v (14.4 when running) and 21A and fuse goes POP. How long it takes to do that varies based on a standard fuse or a "fast-acting" fuse. But basically it requires more power (total) to pass thru the pass to make it pop.

Let's say the voltage rises on a system -- well 30Volts could pass thru at a lower current and depending on the electronic compnent involved could easily be damaged before shorting completely out and blowing the fuse.

It's why if you really want to cap the voltage in a circuit and limit the current, zener diodes are used with limiting resistors so that the voltage will not go above its rating before being clipped.

It's the same reason as why a house with CB has the same problems with electrical surges as does an old house with FUSES.

I believe the trigger for this myth is self-resetting fuses that would allow the system to return to operation and go in and out of use to quickly and if not caught and dealt with can easily kill a system, especially more sensitive electronic components.
 
Nukeranger

Nukeranger

Nukeranger
Darn it, I just keep buying a Braille B2015 and it lasts me about 7 years keeping it on a Genius Tender G1100. I’m not sure why I’m loyal to Braille but maybe next time I’ll get a Deka in about 5 to 7 years. Of course by then, I’ll forget right since I’ll be pushing up on 70 years old……yikes
 
Nukeranger

Nukeranger

Nukeranger
If you have the right tools, You could hookup a meter between the battery terminal and disconnected cable and read any DC amp draw. Then, you can start disconnecting components to find the problem if you really think there is something draining the battery. I don’t suggest you do this unless you know what you’re doing but a lot of the meters have amp connections and I’ve used them but they are limited to like 10 amps and you can blow a meter internal fuse or even mess up a meter.

Does your battery connection spark when hooking and unhooking? A small spark is probably the EHC but a larger spark might tell you that there’s a problem.
 
Jersey Big Mike

Jersey Big Mike

100K mile club
Nukeranger said:
If you have the right tools, You could hookup a meter between the battery terminal and disconnected cable and read any DC amp draw. Then, you can start disconnecting components to find the problem if you really think there is something draining the battery. I don’t suggest you do this unless you know what you’re doing but a lot of the meters have amp connections and I’ve used them but they are limited to like 10 amps and you can blow a meter internal fuse or even mess up a meter.

Does your battery connection spark when hooking and unhooking? A small spark is probably the EHC but a larger spark might tell you that there’s a problem.
Click to expand...
The meter in-line is a great test. If you're drawing more than 10A with the bike off, you've got a VERY serious problem and the battery would die pretty quick. I suspect that the draw is much lower but still present.
Check the headlight bucket (known problem area -- replace connector with newer unit)
What if anything happened or wsa done when this power draw was noticed?
Simply aged. LED's added. Tank off etc.
Check for wires rubbed exiting the battery box -- I just had 2 I had to fix. spray on electrical tape and real tape -- it was a small nick and it did not warrant replacing theentire wire or even splicing.
 
S

Sven

Well-Known Member
For the electrically impaired: This not how it works, but you can play with the numbers and whack the theory all up to rip its neutron from its electron in a proctological sort up look up dare and scope out the battery loss, the VR failure, or the stator.

The phenom of E is all about positive and negative as it PUSHES up a single [wrapped] wire. With the stator's 2 wire ends, being that single wire, is watching North sweep halfway around, and South being the other half shooting up each wire end.

So you can look at 16v sweeping up one wire, another 16v shooting up the other wire = A 32a stator. So the sweep goes 16 up the wire, the VR peels off 1.6v at every sweep, it shows 14.4v at the meter. All components are good.

Now you take 16v at the meter, stator says good, VR says bad. Battery shows cooking pan bubbles, rather than champagne size bubbles out of the fiber pleats, buckles the battery complete.

Stator shows a burnt copper wrap on at a metal core is not sent to ground, but is touching the wound wire next to it. Now the sweep has a resistance and PUSH up a wire turns equal, says Ohm's law. Sweep N is 11.9v, S 11.9v and the meter shows the shortest path is the battery's turnkey number of 12.8v. This is now showing a battery being used as a 'total loss system,' better know as a non-recovering charging system pointing to the stator.

Make sense you go fucking with AC DC is not the brit band, but a band-aid to understanding a simple charging loop in Svenspeak?
 
Jersey Big Mike

Jersey Big Mike

100K mile club
Sven said:
For the electrically impaired: This not how it works, but you can play with the numbers and whack the theory all up to rip its neutron from its electron in a proctological sort up look up dare and scope out the battery loss, the VR failure, or the stator.

The phenom of E is all about positive and negative as it PUSHES up a single [wrapped] wire. With the stator's 2 wire ends, being that single wire, is watching North sweep halfway around, and South being the other half shooting up each wire end.

So you can look at 16v sweeping up one wire, another 16v shooting up the other wire = A 32a stator. So the sweep goes 16 up the wire, the VR peels off 1.6v at every sweep, it shows 14.4v at the meter. All components are good.

Now you take 16v at the meter, stator says good, VR says bad. Battery shows cooking pan bubbles, rather than champagne size bubbles out of the fiber pleats, buckles the battery complete.

Stator shows a burnt copper wrap on at a metal core is not sent to ground, but is touching the wound wire next to it. Now the sweep has a resistance and PUSH up a wire turns equal, says Ohm's law. Sweep N is 11.9v, S 11.9v and the meter shows the shortest path is the battery's turnkey number of 12.8v. This is now showing a battery being used as a 'total loss system,' better know as a non-recovering charging system pointing to the stator.

Make sense you go fucking with AC DC is not the brit band, but a band-aid to understanding a simple charging loop in Svenspeak?
Click to expand...
The Amps of a stator does not equal Volts of a stator/
A 32A stator for a motorcycle will typically produce 50 to 60 V AC at apprx 2500-3000 RPM
 
Coolbreezin

Coolbreezin

Active Member
I understand you just spent a :flush:ton of money for the bike. Unless you have a fuel injector, it would behoove you to rewire the bike so there is no ehc or extra wires to create issues. I had Dave Welch at Chopper City in Middleburg (south Jacksonville) do the work. It was $1500. Now I have 2 fuses and thats it. I have not been left on the side of the road for the past 6 years, I think. Good luck with your issues.
 
D

djscribblz

New Member
Chong said:
Welcome from Michigan!!

Be patient and you'll get thru this .

I had charging issue and the oem curcuit breaker was intermittently cutting out . Hence a trouble shooting struggle.
Replaced with fuse .

Stator output was within spec .

Using fuse is preferred since oem curcuit breaker will let voltage spikes thru which is a death sentence to your ECU .

Sounds like your on the way to solving this .

Best solution.. get 2nd dog . It eliminates down time blues . And hurry up fixes ..

Did I mention I'm a impatient person ? ! hehe
Click to expand...
Haha I actually have a 2022 Road King that I bought earlier this year too. Still breaking it in.
 
Mickmorris

Mickmorris

Well Known Member
Supporting Member
Sven said:
There are 3 components in the charging loop. A voltmeter across the battery will show who has failed in the loop. By watching volt numbers you can pinpoint the downed component.

Battery: Volts means PUSH. So think of a starter motor needing to push the engine over. Ideal battery numbers are anything over 12.8v. So to see if the battery is holding up its job is to watch it drop in volts as you conduct a load test on the battery. If it drops past 11.1v being the ideal number, then it is considered not healthy enough to hold volts.

To see a good battery is to watch the voltage return to it's ideal 12.8v once the engine starts. Things like key on, the battery cannot hold the 12.8v having the taillight on, the current needed for the ECM, possible headlight on, this should sill maintain its 12.8 voltage. Key on, battery drops voltage is a sign of a deteriorating cell(s) in the battery.

Voltage Regulator: When the engine starts, the battery voltage immediately changes to 14.4v at idle. So to constantly watch the meter upon startup, you'll see the recovery number of 12.8v, then switches almost immediately to 14.4v at the meter. This rules out the VR being the problem child of the loop. If you saw 15v+ at the meter, it shows straight stator voltage direct to battery. This will cook or overheat the battery to cause a bulge of the battery case, to boiling the acid and can smell that sulfur odor showing a failed VR.

Stator: By looking at the whole starting procedure, exposing those (ideal) meter values, the battery shows no change upon its recovery number of 12.8v, remains that constant no matter it idling or revving to show a higher output number, it shows the battery can recover, it shows the VR is good, but shows that stator is at fault of recharging the battery.

So the correct voltage sequence of watching the meter goes something like this:
12.8v = Fully charge, key on.
11.1v = Load test of the battery.
12.8v = The recovery number when engine starts up, starter button released.
14.4v = The VR immediately kicks in and no longer is above that number (give or take).

A. Meter read of who is at fault in the charging loop:
12.8v = A static number with no load.
10 - 9v = A battery being load tested via starter motor.
12.1v = The recovery number of the battery no longer stores PUSH.
14.7v = Shows VR is trying to replenish the bad battery so both stator and VR are good, battery is the problem.

B. Voltage Regulator:
12.8v = Key on, no load.
11.1v = Load test.
12.8v = Battery recovery number shows good.
15v+ = VR can no longer regulate AC voltage.

C. Stator:
12.8v = Static number, key on.
11.1v = Starter load number.
12.8v = Recovery number.
12.8v = Stator cannot produce AC show stator is burned out.

Signed,
NOLTT
Click to expand...
Good info Sven! :cheers: :chopper:
 
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