EEE 101 The Skeleton Of The EFI

[Jersey Big Mike]

You read a 40yr old abstract and they say switch and point to the wrong part. Right back then, not the real walk now. This was the short talk and can be seen as; it only works one way is the processor. It has yet to change like an ohmmeter changes, give or take the 1.8yrs comes the obsolete speed tech is, give or take.

Let me go over your abstract.


No, the V is a sensor that can switch a flipflop inside. The abstract said it was to follow the switch inside the processor. So right there you did not grasp the abstract written right out of the book. Explain please.


Ah, I can see your confusion. Ask yourself who goes on and off. Abstract said we wait for the linear sustained analog signal. We as a sensor physically move to a linear electrical value and the on/off occurs at this threshold, and the flipflop removes current from a magnetic hold for one map, and the load map appears when the switching occurs on the motherboard of the processor.


Again, you have no clue who is being pulled up, and who is switching. You are fixated on a switching at a part and the switching is in another part. Follow the purple wire is the next walk is the ding dong, hello, who is there? Bait. I'm looking for switch.


Wrong. That is not how FI works. Here is how I read this short line of abstract.

The spring pushing it back to OFF? In FI, there are no wires hooked up to a spring to tell when to go back OFF. Test question so you more learn than look clueless on the subject.

A spring calls the ON-OFF
An electrical threshold calls the ON or OFF.
Choose correct answer.
Mike says spring. Then throw the processor away. You went mechanical is the guess. Did you check nature's blueprint on that one?


There is no conflicting anything on my end. I am handcuffed to; "it only works one way." Dude, this is open book. I can tell a sensor from a switch. What has changed with the intake vac is, it is now built with silicone crystal material not paper. Same values spec to said application, give or take an ohm.


Seems like you want to keep coming back to this. I'm going to show you that a V is on the FI bikes now. it Never left. It was the start of FI. So you are saying to throw the baby out with the water temp sensor. I am going to work the parts and moves. Tell me if it is not the same part on FI.

Spring: I think the science gets in the way of this one. See how you have the concept of a spring, and did you work someone's law against that? Build a wafer in the sensor. Take a piece of paper and balance it on one of the corners, you hold the direct other side and let the tip rest on the table. The two tips at their horizontal points, place a wire on each end. Wafer wired up. I'm going to grab a Newton law at that spring.

Mike, you're killing me. I've go you on the witness stand with the evidence on everything you said can and will be used against the on you offed. You said spring and I said for every thing you say can and will be going the other way. Spring in the way. At least you took an attempt to build the sensor, I mean switch. Well, my sensor w/wafer does not work like that. I think I spotted a misstep. How long has this been going on? Think changing the plugs might help?

Got it. You had me at spring. That's it. No can work, fella. My analog just beat your beat back the other way LOL. Does a drum roll? Couldn't you think of spring in a drum against the skin? Does E vibrate? Can you imagine the sound or vibration off that crystal? WOW. Because I heard it drop. Tone sound like a spring to deaden what the whole point of the signal is? A vibe if E gets near it?

Pops in the head:
Mike, what's coming out of the speaker when it vibrates like that and the paper on the speaker is whipping back and forth?
1. E vibes the paper.
2. The person's voice.
Mike says the persons voice. Like saying spring. Like saying the on off is in the VOES. Like saying show me a vac sensor that has yet to change what it does from inception.

Mike, how many points have I shown that you have stumbled 3 times on the FI troubleshooting of the parts on the bike.
VOES/MAF/MAS = Linear as a gas gauge needle that does not on off but acts like the VOMM guys. The, hello, I am here at this point. Do what you need to do, you have the signal. I'm full. Here is your signal. I concluded what my job does. Take it away wire.
555 = The guy on the motherboard. The map trigger switching. Here is the switch.

Mike, where is the spring located? YOu mean the switch? That too.
1. VOES
2. 555
Mike said the VOES... w/spring.

Turns page...

Absolutely VOES is on Carb bikes and replaces mechanical vacuum advance but gives only 2 settings.

MAP/MAF is used on EFI to sense vacuum and provides a RANGE of vacuum advance.

My orignal argument was you refered to a VOES being on an EFI system.

 

[bdm7250]

Nice one, bdm.

Thanks for the participation.

Well Sven, that's about as far as I got into your rant about nothing informative or interesting, but thanks for sharing that garbage..
Just a suggestion: when feeling the ill effects of bad acid, you should refrain from posting.

 

[Sven]

it is either a MAP or MAF sensor, not a VOES. With MAF being a more informative sensor in reality.

Pre switching in the V with the blow off screw, if we remove that part, leave the vac in place, do we have 3 sensors for FI?

Back to you.

 

[Sven]

And also, is the V both the mother of the vac signal, and the: Mother Of The Code?

On/Off, right? How else do you flipflop a map? Ground itself and act the Digit.

"I'm glad we had this conversation." Burp

And the principal who has yet to throw me out of here.

Signed,
Here for your entertainment or is it for me LOL

 

[Sven]

Mike, especially you, thanks for the head banging. For you it's all contorted. For me, it's finding how to show the diagnostic walk.

The Skeleton:
Code - Look at the linear in the V. Forget the blow off screw.
No code - vac moved in the linear. Period.

Code - 10 - 55° map code or load.
No code - 10-40-55°.

Code - Blow off screw creates the "Open"
No code - Linear keeps analog in play.

Code - V has 3 code sets. Ground off/purple off/hose off.
No code - No flipflop. (My Switch)

VOES - Analog all day long like a MM > My 1/2 of the think.
Switch - Digit = Code >>> Your mechanical switch.

Mother Of Analog - All day long linear vac signal just like the MM's
Mother Of Backup - The VOES self induces an OPEN/Digit INPUT/Code.

Skeleton:
Skin and all = Analog.
Bones = Digit, just bones.

40yrs back:

So how do you want to write this 40 years later, hide the switch? No, just stop here with the switch technical. Then we'd have to talk about the switch of the other switch and which back and forth should we say when the code sets? Are you kidding me? They have no clue watthis thing did. BTW, what's a code? We'd have to get that seven come eleven guy and his opinion is nothing more than a crapshoot figuring out what that guy is saying about someone's appendage and I'm still trying to figure that one out.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

Mike, especially you, thanks for the head banging. For you it's all contorted. For me, it's finding how to show the diagnostic walk.

The Skeleton:
Code - Look at the linear in the V. Forget the blow off screw.
No code - vac moved in the linear. Period.

Code - 10 - 55° map code or load.
No code - 10-40-55°.

Code - Blow off screw creates the "Open"
No code - Linear keeps analog in play.

Code - V has 3 code sets. Ground off/pink off/hose off.
No code - No flipflop. (My Switch)

VOES - Analog all day long like a MM > My 1/2 of the think.
Switch - Digit = Code >>> Your mechanical switch.

Mother Of Analog - All day long linear vac signal just like the MM's
Mother Of Backup - The VOES self induces an OPEN/Digit INPUT/Code.

Skeleton:
Skin and all = Analog.
Bones = Digit, just bones.

40yrs back:

So how do you want to write this 40 years later, hide the switch? No, just stop here with the switch technical. Then we'd have to talk about the switch of the other switch and which back and forth should we say when the code sets? Are you kidding me? They have no clue watthis thing did. BTW, what's a code? We'd have to get that seven come eleven guy and his opinion is nothing more than a crapshoot figuring out what that guy is saying about someone's appendage and I'm still trying to figure that one out.

SVEN
You are mixing systems.
Electronic ignitions have voes, that is a switch. Normally timing is retarded, vac goes up, timing advances.

EFI has MAP sensor -- the map sensor gives a wide range of readings regarding the vacuum in the system.
The EFI makes smooth constant adjustments to fuel delivers and ignition timing and uses the V as read from the MAP sensor.

Yes, in both cases if you disconnect the wire, bad sensor/switch the system responds according to how its "backup/limp in " mode is set.

Once again, ALL I started with this conversation is that a VOES (a specific type of part) is not used in FI.

Again, If you can show me a reference where a VOES is used I would be happy to check it out.

In both cases, disconnecting the switch/sensor is a valid method of trying to localize the failure point. Wire off (deliberately) and nothing changes, you might have a bad VOES or MAP and further testing should be done.

 

[Sven]

I am separating both systems in one. I discard the blow off adjustment. Now I'm wondering; there is no way a switch is going to spike at a carbon buildup of removing the purple from the wafer? Wire out of wafer to touch point, and it then vac moves the purple off the wafer's wire inside? Is that the what is inside I'm looking at? So here we go:

1. I am an electronic signal and between wires is vac; that mechanically moves the purple off the complete loop.
2. Or, I am always wired being an electronic wire to a motherboard from a sensor and need ground outside to hold ground inside to flpflp back and forth in the constant linear moves of load and lift of any position sent in. I have to-have to read the purple under any load at every second, because the on off is linear when wired to follow every signal off the crank till the key is turned off. Yes or no?
3. All day long and years from now, I suck air and you might as well say heavy mist is my environment is the switch on off.
Yes indeedee, I'm going to send some accurate shit thru the rust and carbon deposits and trigger on off like a motherfucker, watch me.
4. Am I an on off switch electric, or mechanical?
5. Did the VOES act the MM and never turn off? Didn't the ELECTRONIC VALUE FLIPFLOP?
6. Isn't the blow off all about adjust the degree advance pressure? Isn't the connection reading the pressure at all times for the flop to drop the very instant a sun's ray moves to the next, within light speed the other ride map is sitting at the calc on the 3 no vac cycles, correct? Did the slightest of slight lift, trigger the run map for a millionth of second a move of the hand? Yes or no, it's following vac and still triggers following the fastest of fastest throttle twist you can as you switch gears to, you just dropped run map way before you moved whatever tiny inch on lift.
7. Isn't once the chip goes hot, not a thing you can do about the power to a 60hz cycle the 555 is that throttle pedal you throw resistors to slow it down, speed it up in the row of 555 timers looking like a black row of 5'ers in rectangle caterpillar lengths now, triggering like you guessed, like a motherfucker is the vac number incremental input sent in electronic numbers, yes or no?
8. And back to say, set my blow off say, at cargo container level or at mile high city level, my wave is going to be pulled for that altitude, so I have to adjust that back to zero or blows off late, right? Less pressure at the wafer, so it travels away from center. So it begins traveling into higher rpm to return to center, then you're knocking away a touch because the signal was too late to flip the flop. So you move the screw and move it more forward, because the wafer's less pressure on it move back, for argument sake.
9. So if you followed my walk, there is no OPEN when VOES switches. Then what is it? I see the continually wired (MM) sensor to the chip, to flop and the threshold is that number at a 3.5pa is the pop threshold. Adj for altitude. That puts you in the timing mark and all that too-goes linear following the pressured electronic input signals you are watching.
10. We are down to... you are not going to see a V-style on the pop off mechanics of it. YOu do see the linear side of the toy hammering the next figure up in the flipflop. I have that light speed visual imagination every figure is doing the motherfuker flip the flop up and down and only one is up for the fast as light move is the spark is there somewhere when in the handcuffed 60hz cycle cycles.

VOES = Vividly Oppose Electronics Sent how you see it? Or I'm missing something in the basics and how I see E as one ray moved is one wave or ray measured electronically. And how tiny a move is that in electrical moves?

Well, shrink as they may, same range no matter the ohm range the formula calls for and are handcuffed to 14.7 for the backup alpha-Numeric .
If you say it's a constant connection and the electronic threshold throws the switch...



"Again, If you can show me a reference where a VOES is used I would be happy to check it out."
You won't find it. I can only point to half the way the sensor is made. Only then can you see the one side that reads 40 years later. No matter how you see it, it travels up to leg and stops with the value. While it does that, MM's follow the same vacuum. They too stop via pressure peak pull. If the MM can follow it, so can the V. If they are wired and go full open, so can V, being it was never OPEN and out of the loop.

Atmosphere did not change from 40yrs ago - Meets the MM's
Wire in Wire out off the paper signal to send a value - Meets the MM and their crystal upgrade.
V's analog is sent - Meets MM spec.

How close am I if you see half of the design fits FI perfectly? And I think I brought up the Method part of it. Evolution coming for the throttle position sensor. Now you have two, a vac and rheostat at the TPS. The one handles light loads, the other heavy loads.

Am I not looking at the software and typing in , when Pa reaches this value, flip to the heavy load map. If I don't write the code to say do this, then won't the values just go up and down and do nothing without the intercept number to do the work?

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

How close am I if you see half of the design fits FI perfectly? And I think I brought up the Method part of it. Evolution coming for the throttle position sensor. Now you have two, a vac and rheostat at the TPS. The one handles light loads, the other heavy loads.

Am I not looking at the software and typing in , when Pa reaches this value, flip to the heavy load map. If I don't write the code to say do this, then won't the values just go up and down and do nothing without the intercept number to do the work?

In modern FI (since TPS) it is not a one or the other sensor being used but both seing used simultaneously to calc the fuel and angle of ignition. So the MAP sensor reads level of V and the TPS reads throttle position and both are involved at all times.

There is no light load vs heavy load switch it's a smooth curve, since we know precise current V.

In classic electronic ignition systems with a VOES, all you had was a switch (the VOES) that said at x in of mercury(4-7 typically dependent on bike) change the amount of timing advance.

---
The beauty of EFI is you have more information available at all times and can make more and finer adjustments.
With TPS you get the ability to read the throttle position but still be able to say, less fuel or more fuel, or advance etc.

 

[Sven]

... but both seeing used simultaneously... and both are involved at all times.

See, you are working the sensor and what it does. I am describing a difference between an analog and a backup/fail-safe is a digit setting. I'm at the wire break/jobber out of spec. Then we get into the 'Method' and once a wire no longer sends a signal, there is the method for both vac and tps. And those are multi lookup maps gone and one presets only? Acts the purple off, right? Wire off, it's the preset like the V sets when open. But back in the V'days, it was just an a-N in action for the heavy load to understand its beginning evolvement. Now there is a backup map for the wire off of the tps, and that's D-J for a light load scenario. Has to be a single map and locked with OPEN cutting the loop. So the guess is a single map till wire is fixed to flip again and math the lookups to smooth off if.

There is no light load vs heavy load switch it's a smooth curve, since we know precise current V.

Again, do we not see you are agreeing with me on the moves? How else can it work? The ever evolving single sensor and 19 more to come on a modern computer bike. So as far as I'm concerned, the next sensor to come along was the TPS off the carb's throttle shaft, and no vac on this model. There you see the D-J in the evolution of the two jobbers. I would assume there too is the hack to the TPS back in the day as your basic TRE hack of a wire off/out of spec/short/ does not matter it's the power to it power off, or square goes saw-tooth or some other ragged wave. Man has to cover both angles to the handcuffing of 14.7. And that vac's failure times 3-ways of flipping the backup map/the safe-mode map. Did we follow flipflop coding is the backup flipped up for safety?

Right? Safe to WOT and you're covered without the pull up thru the switching? It's the default safe map, yes?

In classic electronic ignition systems with a VOES, all you had was a switch (the VOES) that said at x in of mercury(4-7 typically dependent on bike) change the amount of timing advance.

Here is where you are walking on my side of the MM's. I'll apply your abstract to the MM's when I see how it's read in the book.

Being handcuffed to the electronic signal, no matter the jobber design, the electronic signal is the same system used on the suck of the MM's. All you are handcuffed to is the same exact move from day one is it only works one way, was a flipflop reaching a trigger point at the 555. Pre-V, timing did not use vac in the electrical sense, but had to mimic the mechanical (linear) advance swing. In binary speak, it can read an analog electrical value, and electrically meet a threshold at the 555. I don't see any other way to flip it, but electronically hold it from flipping back. This is to magnetically switch to OFF to send up the safe map under load. The electrons have no clue if air moves its values or thru a rheostat, it still has to convert to electrical values, so an on/off situation can occur, if not jump on the 60hz at some time point.

VOES - Swings the linear.. heavy load.
MM - Swings the linear... heavy load.
Parts? - Build it and 18 more will come.... TPS - Light load still receives a value like half the VOSide of the same design reaching a value thru a wire.

VOES = Variable Overrides E=magnet Signal
MM = Swings to the same exact value and just sends it no switching? Still moved like a V and sent the same signal meeting that threshold. Where is the crank speed, right?
---

The beauty of EFI is you have more information available ... finer adjustments. With TPS... less fuel or more fuel, or advance etc.

The beauty of DFI from EFI is a wafer against crystal reading the same abstract in the books. Same exact signal you can't change electrically, so both act and have the same exact parts of an ohmmeter to be the ohmmeter is to be the V and MM are the same parts used. So with TPS, this is the lower fuel demand electronically tuned with finer timing adjusting with now 18 more telemetry inputs, and not all are the ign/flop/map change, meaning. The math can then go thru the And/Or/Nor warehouses Mike can point out on a motherboard, and it goes right back to the handcuffing of the truth tables have yet to change from a chip, be is one 555 or the gaggle of 555'ers with 3 wires out the one chip (think), where one wire is hot to the battery, the other is ground, then out to the 3rd wire is a converted 5v, and then add another chip to hot, and another to that one wire still dangling off the chip you ended with; headed for ground eventually. Add more telemetry, add chip after chip for finer or say, the same ass value you can't change.

I'm going to change 1v into something else like WATT? A set of handcuffs is what.

How much now is the check, mate? Seems like the trigger is happy landing on the caterpillar leg of clap on clap off of a value swing; so as reach a value to move it off magnetically. Then does MM also seek a preset value on the swings and calc is flipping on and off is the motherfuckerboard with the keys to the handcuffs is 60mz the 555 is flip the flop stuck with doing is that jobber seeing sig after sig and the on/off against the 60hz. I don't give a shitshineshoes about maps, ohms, all of it. I watch nature's handcuffing to school me.

VOES:
Does V trigger or reach a value, and that is all she wrote if you hold the vac steady? Yes
Does the value do only one job? Yes. Swings the liner back and forth like a playground swing from gravity's center is no one is on the swing yet, or key off.
Does the swing have to follow the 5v setting on the m-board? Yes. I think ohm the law says so.
Does then both vac jobbers, both follow the signal because 5v has not changed? Pants off the V, looks like it swings to me. It takes the 555 to convert 12v is the one leg. The ground is the other leg. And out the 3rd wire is 5v ready to read vac pressure coverts the push of a milli/microvolt.
Does the push change in nature or is it handcuffed so Mr. Ohm set the formula. Yes, he more or less converted E going thru those sun waves and brain ends there on the subject. But up to that point, sure has to follow nature, MM does.
Does on your side of the table [no pun there] but it's pretty much splattered on the table are the hard parts inside that microprocessor back in the day.

And when I lift the hood of that black box 40 years back and then today I lift? Guess what's inside? The same old piston and rings the crank oh who ported the head? Same exact parts to make a MM for FI, is Mother-V in its infancy.

No factory training when I left the industry and bought my first computer bike. What the fuck did I buy? 7yrs not owning a bike, why I'll go on the net and ask how FI works and one flip to another flop was we don't care, password not valid. OK, in that case, backwards I go to understanding.

I'm up against factory trained. I can hold my own like every step almost... Now rack the bike that makes it work for me.... How close am I? Signal to signal is the vac, yes or no, you'll find the exact action a voes does but named MM without the screw. Now, if you want to find the V in the MM, there you go. It's a linear swing only, yes or no?

Did vac just swing in the park and has no clue about doing anything else? Didn't the written code say flip on this number? I'm sure you can design enough parts to see the value and flip it, but do you really make a map with parts or code writing? Which I have not studied at all. Takes sitting with the kids, write? Little designers turned hackers... once the basics are learned.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

VOES - Swings the linear.. heavy load.
MM - Swings the linear... heavy load.
Parts? - Build it and 18 more will come.... TPS - Light load still receives a value like half the VOSide of the same design reaching a value thru a wire.

VOES = Variable Overrides E=magnet Signal
MM = Swings to the same exact value and just sends it no switching? Still moved like a V and sent the same signal meeting that threshold. Where is the crank speed, right?
---

Here's my SOLE issue with your whole process.
You insist on referring to VOES in context of FI

VOES is a specific device, not a generic term and the rest of the world agrees that it is an acronym for Vacuum Operated Electronic Switch.

That is the ONLY issue I have been raising all along.

Voes being tested.

At this point let's agree to disagree. I am certain that we both get EFI and how to troubleshoot it. I simply disagree with your use of some terminology.

 

[Sven]

"The computer module selects the proper curve when it receives an open or closed electrical signal from the V.O.E.S."
How do I read this?
The ecu is a constant connection to the sensor, and when it receives an open, it's an electrical short/open/not connected from the V.
Or do I read it as: receives an open, then it's an electrical signal.

See, I don't follow function from the jobber. I follow the signal that can send so it selects. And here is a PERIOD.
See, I now add the 40 plus years, find out that vac still sends signals to the selected curve, for if the wire is OPEN, a-N covers heavy load. That's one side, TPS takes care of run all day and wire snipped on that is covered by low load D-J.

Old way has yet to move differently with the same electrical signal, give or take an ohm on the motherboard.

At the time I'd follow that nomenclature as a switch. Today I'm just not that dumbedown so much as in, hold lips over vac, see numbers, checks good, install.

VAC: Hey, M. I guess you're on the project with me. Did you see the shit going on in R&D?
M&M: Tell me about it. Yeah, I picked you for this one. Upstairs wants this pile out the door.

VAC: Why do we have to work on the obsolete ones? R&D is 6yrs ahead and another sensor is coming down the pike.
M&M: Well, you know what Mike wants, Mike gets. That V and S needs some work. Okay, do we just suck it up or WATT?

VAC: Oh fuck, don't bring that up. You know what happened with that one.
M&M: Yeah, we looked up switch and the nomenclature is going to look stupid down the road with sensor after sensor.

VAC: I think we better just say switch and not flipflop around, then it's bring in WATT he said. Mike is having a heart attack on the vac end. They ever carpet his office?
M&M: I'll flipflop for it, call it. Switch. Okay, lettuce go for lunch first, write the abstract all over again.

VAC: Did you catch that sales pitch with the guy selling that TRE?
M&M: Ha, before displace, he came to that job I was at, snipped a wire on the variable operating sensor and said, Sold!

VAC: Then what?
M&M: Management called me in the office and something about a hot mic.

VAC: What did they hear?
M&M: We were about to make another new generation sensor w/o screw and I picked the old one up and called it a sensor and got fired because of my contract clause said that I never say switch to a sensor. Shit, I did it again.

VAC: Okay, lets go to lunch. Who flips for the check this time?
M&M: Can't. Just got a text to come to the front office.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

"The computer module selects the proper curve when it receives an open or closed electrical signal from the V.O.E.S."
How do I read this?
The ecu is a constant connection to the sensor, and when it receives an open, it's an electrical short/open/not connected from the V.
Or do I read it as: receives an open, then it's an electrical signal.

Again -- there is NO VOES connected to the computer on an EFI system that I have ever seen. Show me one.


Do you see a VOES -- I don't.
VOES and MAP sensors do not work the same although they are BOTH related to Vacuum.

 

[bdm7250]

Again -- there is NO VOES connected to the computer on an EFI system that I have ever seen. Show me one.
View attachment 92646

Do you see a VOES -- I don't.
VOES and MAP sensors do not work the same although they are BOTH related to Vacuum.

Mike, don't have an aneurism dealing with the thick mentality of others..

 

[Sven]

"...although they are BOTH related to Vacuum." I am agreeing it is a jobber doing something at the screw. There is no screw in the MM's and of course a flat out two wire sensor. It is not about to hook up to a computer bike, let alone the screw device, and missing the 3rd 5v wire. I hope you know I have all that figured out. I'm not in your square. I am out of the box in the thinking. Join me so you see both our sides. You are full blown at it, and I'm saying yeah half of the jobber. But I have to walk up to the computer bike in the think.

Don't need a wire diagram if I already know both MM's are pink at the heavy and gray at the flipflop of the a-N/D-J's and bla the bla at it till it's choking chubs chicken.

"The computer module selects the proper curve when it receives an open or closed electrical signal from the V.O.E.S."

That's what I follow.
Mother Analog V right out of the factory shop manual: "The computer module selects the proper curve when it receives an electrical signal....(from the jobber)"
Modern MM manuals for Fuel Injection: "The computer module selects the proper curve when it receives an electrical signal from the Jobber.

The very first thing you need to know before you open the book is what does analog mean to the E-box?
If I read any bike with any jobber I know it's a sensor. A variable sensor.

I am not about to walk up to every computer bike and see it's a switch kind of jobber. I have to see it sending analog no matter what random numbers but 0 sent steady to the E-box.

Kind of hard to see how my buddy thinks, but I keep forgetting his off the wall answers back. I coined him decades ago as The Minister of Distorted Facts. Kind fact you ask; so I hear you bought a new car?. No I didn't I bought a ford.

 

[Sven]

bdm, I'm sure Mike is enjoying this as much as I am. The topic is EFI. I see his skill set so it's more shop talk than anything. Has to be someone else enjoying this.

The stubborn or thick is following nature I am stuck with. It only works one way and I can see the parts. If I can get a basic gist of what 4 parts are, like a 555-resistor-capacitor-ground-E inside the E-box and go with that, it's like breakdown an engine show me the parts.

Signed,
No One Likes Truth Tables

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

"...although they are BOTH related to Vacuum." I am agreeing it is a jobber doing something at the screw. There is no screw in the MM's and of course a flat out two wire sensor. It is not about to hook up to a computer bike, let alone the screw device, and missing the 3rd 5v wire. I hope you know I have all that figured out. I'm not in your square. I am out of the box in the thinking. Join me so you see both our sides. You are full blown at it, and I'm saying yeah half of the jobber. But I have to walk up to the computer bike in the think.

Don't need a wire diagram if I already know both MM's are pink at the heavy and gray at the flipflop of the a-N/D-J's and bla the bla at it till it's choking chubs chicken.

the MAP sensor being an analog devices has 3 wires, ground, power and signal.
The signal is a linear output over the range of vacuum it is designed for.
Let's say we have a sensor that is set to detect a range of 0 to 10 inHg which would more that cover any street bike.
At 0 inHg the sensor shows 0V, at .5 inHG we get .25v, at 1 inHg = .5V, 2 inHg = 1V, 5 inHg =2.5v 10 inHg =5v
With EFI (current) that value from 0 to 5 is used during EVERY fuel/timing calculation

"The computer module selects the proper curve when it receives an open or closed electrical signal from the V.O.E.S."

This the line where you and I disagree - the EFI does not switch to the proper curve and does not get a signal from a V.O.E.S

 

[Sven]

the MAP sensor being an analog device...

Here is where we agree. I don't get it how I understand it's a switch, but it's a who cares how it's calc'd, it's still analog in. Why do you not see that part?

The signal is a linear output over the range of vacuum it is design...

See how is it you keep bringing up key moves to see analog moves thru a jobber's wire? You are stepping on your own abstract, be it yours or mine.

.. 0 to 10 inHg which would more that cover any street bike.

But, when you say any bike, are we not looking at 14.7 to build around it? Ohmmeter to ohmmeter is no change? Get it? Can only follow law one way is formula? There is my answer again in the generic vac out to wire. Has to be the same exact signal range equals old. And I see no change in vac design being that you are handcuffed to the alpha-Numeric, right?

With EFI (current) that value from 0 to 5 is used during EVERY fuel/timing calc

With the evolution of the very first pulse up the V's wire it still says analog no matter if you agree or not. I follow laws not a jobber's mechanical moves, butt what the shit out the wire says. Take the human body. It eatshits and yells. Those two functions are our voes. I am after the signal of yelling electrically thru the air. Vac for Vac in design, I have yet to see a human not change from those 3 moves.

Formula:
Stroke length is a mile high.
Times bore size is coast to coast.
Divided by the closing of the intake valve. Where X remains the constant 14.7 to calc off of. Did we build an ohmmeter matches an ohmmeter against nature's law called a VOES? And formula is handcuff to it? Then you have to agree to the handcuffing of the vac having the same old has to follow 40yrs back too?

This the line where you and I disagree - the EFI does not switch to the proper curve and does not get a signal from a V.O.E.S

This is the abstract I agree with and you have to as well: EFI does a lot of switching back and forth inside the processor. The proper curve is pulsed by the speed of the crank times the vac pulled. For argument sake. Like half the V for argument sake.

Agree/Dis:
You: Say it's a switch
Me: I say it's a switch

You: Say the switching is in the V.
Me: I say the switching is in the V.

You: Say it sends analog to the microprocessor.
Me: Too.

You: then agree with the written abstract right out of the shop manual about the E-box waiting to throw the switch.
Me: Too

You: now bring in a formula to calculate the 14.7 and throw the math that follows 5v.
Me: Also.

You: do understand it is a ford.
Me: ? When push comes to shove off the flop, it's a new car.

You: Don't get it.
Me: I follow nature's rules of law. 101.3pa with a breath out and breath in, I can't tell a new car from a jobber.

Year kidding me, right? I've pressured you on this you have no clue how you keep stepping on the basic difference between a magnetic law we live in and don't see it?

Ohm's Meter = Reads it from one starting color, let me count the waves before it blends into another color exposing that prism ray of light of E. That much color of one ray is it? I have no clue. But it sure looks like it's frozen 60 hurts the eyes 60, but ray after ray the ohm picks it up as an E, correct?

Vac = And to watch that medical needle stuck like it's frozen, and thousands of rpms are turning, and it sits there at the handcuffed number of 760mmHg.

You: know I know my math.
Me: Then do you see you had to follow the same processor, to read the same 14.7, agreed? Then 14.7 did not change either. That means same formula to read a signal to match what seems to be the 1-10-inch is vac then as it is vac now in formula design, correct? I'm sure you've got an argument for that.

You: and me do not agree it is a switch and that is it... let me put this here PERIOD.
Me: and you agree one step at a time you can't get out of the jobber sending analog all alone.

Just being a jobber and it's all in the leg of the 555 that does the real switch. And it's nature that checkmates you back then as it does now. Analog up the wire all the time. You have to see that.

Then where is the argument about its real function? Basic on/off signals with linear assist.

Signed,
a-N Listens To Truthtables

 

[Sven]

And when I say vac with your 1 -10inch, I am at that full pass where all the colors in that prism starts and ends in those numbers. That's if I could cut that prism's single ray, slice it to a billionth of an inch, that would be an incremental change of blue you could not see a difference in.

But that linear slice is a changed of blue dwarfing into another blue, and all those billions of slices eventually reach 10in.

So math a billion zeros away until that one slice is a number in the first zero to the right; is shown in the ohmmeter. That's how I read linear. Out of the box.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

My ENTIRE arguement is your misuse of the acronym VOES.

There is no VOES in an EFI.

EFI (modern) continually adjusts the curve based on all the info it receives (map sensor, IAT, TPS, ETS and O2 sensors).

VOES is a specific device.

I'd be just as stubborn if we were talking specifics of the BDM's S&S VFI and you kept referring to the MAP sensor as a MAF sensor.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

And when I say vac with your 1 -10inch, I am at that full pass where all the colors in that prism starts and ends in those numbers. That's if I could cut that prism's single ray, slice it to a billionth of an inch, that would be an incremental change of blue you could not see a difference in.

But that linear slice is a changed of blue dwarfing into another blue, and all those billions of slices eventually reach 10in.

So math a billion zeros away until that one slice is a number in the first zero to the right; is shown in the ohmmeter. That's how I read linear. Out of the box.

Well we aren't slicing into billions, we are slicing the range typically on a microcontroller to 1024 levels, so approximately a resolution of .005v = .001 inHg. No, you don't even feel that smooth transition. But that doesn't mean it isn't happening internally.

The proper test of a MAP sensor requires it be powered and you read the voltage as pressure changes.
There is no OHMS involved.