engine hangs when first trying to start

[Coolbreezin]

Hello my fellow motorcyclists. My engine hangs when I try to start it after sitting 24 or more hours. Once it powers over the issue it spins like crazy and starts. I checked the releases, both work. Load tested battery, status good and 13.1v at rest, installed battery and tested cables. Everything is fine. I was told that the internals (windings) may not be sitting correctly and thats why it hangs up at first. Your thoughts?

 

[COOPer]

Is it a Big Dog?

 

[Sven]

Cool, I want to test a save in the black box. So I want to see if BD has a loophole to this. And the movement in my madness is I want to clear the saved signal if any. I want to cycle the key so it grounds what is saved in other words. Like wiping the hard drive and it's fresh out of a the box when you get it.

So key on, key off. Then key on and start it. Refresh says?

Report

COOL

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[Mickmorris]

Does it only do it once? Then fire right off on the 2nd try? Your CR’s might be getting worn out. What year & model BigDog?

 

[COOPer]

If its a Big Dog could be starter contacts and plunger. Depends on what u r talkin about

 

[FrankBDPS]

Connect a volt meter across you're fully charged battery. Try to start you're engine and while doing so watch the volt meter. What you are doing is a load test on the battery. If the voltage drops to less than 12 volts it COULD indicate a dead cell in the battery. If you're battery is 3 or 4 years old it is approaching the end of its life. Don't rule out the battery. Just because you have 13 volts at rest dosent mean it is capable of providing enough amperage capacity to spin a high compression engine.

Good luck with you're trouble shooting.
Frank

 

[Coolbreezin]

Thank you all for your questions and comments.
1) The battery was professionally load tested and showed in good condition. So i consider it ruled out.
2) I forgot to post that first thing I did was clean the starter contacts. Pretty beat up but still usable.
3) Both releases work fine, I felt them go down and back up.

As I stated above, I was told that maybe the starter internals are loose and thats wht it hangs up. Im no starterologists, so if anyone has input it is welcome.

 

[Sven]

My engine hangs when I try to start it after sitting 24 or more hours.

I may have chased a computer glitch.
Is it: My engine hangs"
Or: My starter motor hangs up?

I was told that the internals (windings) may not be sitting correctly and thats why it hangs up at first. Your thoughts?

Loosen the starter motor bolts. Not so far out but snug. Tap the start button. My thought is it hangs or drags and can't move back. But a realign maybe? Kind of self aligns and see it the motor hangs up still... when bolts are tight. If still, new starter motor, or rebuild it.

 

[Coolbreezin]

UPDATE: I r&r'ed the starter, cleaned it as best I could inside. The shoes still had good meat on them. I also sanded all 4 cable ends. It was a bit dirty inside but no more than my past starters had. Still struggles to turn over. So Im thinking of just buying another starter.

 

[Sven]

Does the bike have a flat type steel breaded cable from engine to frame like some HD's? That's a starter motor glitch as a variable to look for. That, or jumper cables and ground the motor case/engine/frame/ battery (-) side and all 4 are ground for the starter to move or still struggle. Then you go from there. Because it's not ground if you can get the motor to move., then it's the starter motor.

 

[Coolbreezin]

Removed one plug, motor turned over ok but still had a bit of a struggle. Did the same to other and same result. Both work fine. Although the CR's open/close with each rotation. Both plugs in it just wont turn over. My green wire is attached to the little male connector on the side of the starter. I recall some time ago someone posted about mounting directly to the starter power cable. Will this hold my CR's open until the starter stops receiving power?

Sven, thank you for the input. I have seen those before. But Ive ridden this bike for over 80,000 miles without the need of a second ground cable. So why now?

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Removed one plug, motor turned over ok but still had a bit of a struggle. Did the same to other and same result. Both work fine. Although the CR's open/close with each rotation. Both plugs in it just wont turn over. My green wire is attached to the little male connector on the side of the starter. I recall some time ago someone posted about mounting directly to the starter power cable. Will this hold my CR's open until the starter stops receiving power?

Sven, thank you for the input. I have seen those before. But Ive ridden this bike for over 80,000 miles without the need of a second ground cable. So why now?

Cool, I thought I would point out to you that your compression releases only come on for about a second when the start button is depressed. They do not open and close while cranking the engine. That would cause the engine to be difficult to start because of low compression. It seems as though you have checked the connections and contacts out really well so even though your battery tests good it may just be a little tired. If the battery is a few years old replace it. Always a good policy to replace your battery early rather than later when it can leave you on the side of the road. Make sure your charging system is working well just to be sure. Since you say the bike cranks great once it turns over I would be less inclined to go for a new starter until I was pretty close to positive that was the issue.
One thing I like to do when my engine is cold is to rock it in gear a couple times to get the cylinders in the mood to crank. It helps but every once in a while it will still stop on the first try. I believe it's the nature of the beast.
To answer your question about the direct wiring the starter. The CR's and the starter solenoid are controlled by the EHC when the start button is activated. They both happen at the same time but have separate wires. The CR operates for only about 1 second but the starter solenoid will have power until you release the start button. If you direct wire the solenoid you would also need to hit the starter button at the same time to activate the releases.

 

[Coolbreezin]

Mike (you the man!), thank you so much for taking the time to explain it to me . My bike does not have a brain. I had it professionally removed a couple years ago and installed an ignition switch like in a car. I will start my bike with a different battery, it is about 3 years old.

I fail to see how a direct green wire to the starter hot wire is a bad idea. Is there something I'm missing?

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

Mike (you the man!), thank you so much for taking the time to explain it to me . My bike does not have a brain. I had it professionally removed a couple years ago and installed an ignition switch like in a car. I will start my bike with a different battery, it is about 3 years old.

I fail to see how a direct green wire to the starter hot wire is a bad idea. Is there something I'm missing?

Ok the starter has the BIG wire connected to +12V
Starter is grounded by frame (and or big wire to 12V neg)
The green wire comes from the stater relay -- it get's 12v when you hit the start button and starter spins.
If you wire the green wire to the stater + it ALWAYS spins

CR's are meant to only be on long enough so the starter motor can spin the motor up to needed speed so it starts.

 

[Coolbreezin]

Disconnected bike battery, connected jumpers to car battery. Struggled but didn't turn over. Connected bike battery then jumped from car. Engine spun but not fast enough to start.
I'm wondering if maybe the ignition wires may be the culprit?

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Mike (you the man!), thank you so much for taking the time to explain it to me . My bike does not have a brain. I had it professionally removed a couple years ago and installed an ignition switch like in a car. I will start my bike with a different battery, it is about 3 years old.

I fail to see how a direct green wire to the starter hot wire is a bad idea. Is there something I'm missing?

I was not suggesting it was a bad idea, just pointing out you would need to hit 2 separate buttons simultaneously to start the engine. One to crank the starter and the other to activate the compression releases. I had that setup on my bike after my EHC went south and would only provide power to the compression releases and not to the (green wire) starter solenoid. A slam button provides an alternative to having the green wire on a separate circuit.
Your bike is rewired so without a diagram it's hard to say how they controlled the CR and starter. Your bike was working fine just giving you trouble on first crank.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Disconnected bike battery, connected jumpers to car battery. Struggled but didn't turn over. Connected bike battery then jumped from car. Engine spun but not fast enough to start.
I'm wondering if maybe the ignition wires may be the culprit?

Your ignition wires are not likely the culprit. If you had ignition problems the bike may not start but it would crank. Is your bike still acting like your original post says or has the problem changed? The big take away here is you only have the problem when the bike is cold and first starting. Get a new battery charge it up nice and see what happens. Worst case you have a spare if that doesn't fix your problem.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

You mentioned you tried with one plug out then the other. Have you tried with both plugs out. It should spin effortlessly then.
Have you tried manually holding the cr's down and trying to start it?

When this started had ANYTHING happened?
Bike drop, accident, fluid change anything at all? Sat for a long time etc.

 

[Sven]

I'm with Mike. Ign not related. I'd try a volt meter across the battery, push the start button and if it drops past 11v... Batt? And then you should see 11v come back up to 12v in a few. And now what is the static volts with that one start? 12.2 ~ 12.4v ain't gonna do it. 12.6 ~ 12.8v on the comeback, not the battery.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

I'm with Mike. Ign not related. I'd try a volt meter across the battery, push the start button and if it drops past 11v... Batt? And then you should see 11v come back up to 12v in a few. And now what is the static volts with that one start? 12.2 ~ 12.4v ain't gonna do it. 12.6 ~ 12.8v on the comeback, not the battery.

I agree -- not likely ignition.
Battery is a likely culprit but you'd think with all this testing and strain that it would get worse.
Do the test as Sven suggests and try the no plugs test and see how fast/easy it spins and then try holding the cr's manually.