Night Trains Tech Tip of the week

[bdmridgeback]

So you say that the "Electrical System" has gone from a 26% failure rate to a 1.5% failure, correct?

There has been talk on here by a few members that say the EHC failure rate dropped from 26% to 1.5% and I say that is false.

I can see the complete system upgrades fixing 25% of issues with all the new updates that you listed above from 2005 to the new 2009 bikes.

I say though that the defect/failure rate on the EHC's themselves has not changed much at all in the last 2-3 years.

My bike had 4 EHC's put in it up till I did the Wire-Plus module back in October and I saw no changes in EHC quality from my 2005 factory EHC to the latest one installed in September 2008. They were all junk!

I could NEVER, in the life of this 2005 bike, get more than 800 miles on it in between EHC or Voltage Regulator failures over the 3 years and 6500 miles!

I'd say, anything that can be done to ELIMINATE the EHC is a 100% improvement.

Sorry for the Ball Busting, but I am sure this is just the beguinning in this thread! :2thumbs:

 

[MARV]

So you say that the "Electrical System" has gone from a 26% failure rate to a 1.5% failure, correct?

There has been talk on here by a few members that say the EHC failure rate dropped from 26% to 1.5% and I say that is false.

I can see the complete system upgrades fixing 25% of issues with all the new updates that you listed above from 2005 to the new 2009 bikes.

I say though that the defect/failure rate on the EHC's themselves has not changed much at all in the last 2-3 years.

My bike had 4 EHC's put in it up till I did the Wire-Plus module back in October and I saw no changes in EHC quality from my 2005 factory EHC to the latest one installed in September 2008. They were all junk!

I could NEVER, in the life of this 2005 bike, get more than 800 miles on it in between EHC or Voltage Regulator failures over the 3 years and 6500 miles!

I'd say, anything that can be done to ELIMINATE the EHC is a 100% improvement.

Sorry for the Ball Busting, but I am sure this is just the beguinning in this thread! :2thumbs:

it is what it is. lets just keep the info coming for the guys who havent switched to the wire plus. OK?

 

[KnotSo]

Night Train, I would think a better question would be "How much will you sell one for?"

 

[Moespeeds]

Night Train, I'm just curious, why did Big Dog go with the EHC/low voltage system and not a regular 12v system that's been proven for 50 yrs? Other than running smaller wires up through the bars, what was the advantage?

 

[Ohmster]

FYI for anyone that cares. Night Train was the one that trained me on BDM electrical systems so if he says something take it as gospel. As for the Wires Plus systems, well I would like to see more road data before I took the stand that it is the "fix all" for everything.

That being said if I ever had a question about an electrical system I could not figure out I would call Night Train for the answer and I still do from time to time. Although I figure I owe the guy one or two lunches so far.(Private joke)

 

[MARV]

hey Nightrain, got an 05 chop with a dynatek 2KI ignition in the nosecone. the only thing from the ignition wired thru the ehc is the power feed.

how about setting up maybe a 2 stage key cylinder, i spot for the ehc and another for the starter relay and ignition. then have the starter, ignition and compression release wired thru a relay like S&S shows in the compression release wiring diagram.

thats something i'd be interested in so that the ehc wouldnt stop the bike.

 

[Night Train]

The design is simple mounting a new switch will require some rework but nothing any harder than what they are doing to install the Wire + system.

Let me draw up a few ideas then I'll get back to you. If you don't see something or hear from me shoot me a PM. Between work, kids and garage I get busy some times. Shoot me a PM so it will stay fresher in my to do list.

 

[Night Train]

Well the people have spoken, keep you eyes open for next weeks tip.

You guys got me thinking now, I was thinking of hitting local big dog events to pedal my services but rewiring an entire bike really is not something you can do easily at a rally. Until I get my product offerings built up I was thinking maybe a little booth at some local events (like OKC Thunder Cycles and Tulsa) would let me get my name out, maybe offer some free tech seminars and hand out my contact information for wiring jobs. If you guys were at a rally and had the opportunity to attend fee seminars (about an hour each) on using a multimeter, basic electronics, BDM specific electronics ect is that something you would find interesting or a waste of your time? I was also thinking of contacting dealers and offering them training for their techs that would come to them, you techs out there, would this interest you? Would be cool to work something out with the dealers to let customers come in for some basic training. I'll have to think about this, dealers may see this as taking money out of their pocket and not something they would want to do.

Just some thoughts. Keep an eye out for my next few tech tips, I'll concentrate on test equipment.

Until then:flag:

 

[MARV]

having the parts in hand to take the EHC out of the run/start circuit and offering that as an install at a rally would be a home run in my book.

i'd think you could post where your gonna be and appointments could be made here. kind of like Dr. Dyno's set-up. that way you'd know your base volume.

plus i'd think i'd be WAY cheaper and cleaner then the wire plus swap.

 

[stephencs]

Yo Brother NightTrain Electrical Dude

:flag: I see you've met a few of the folks here?? LOL I have to say you have taken a couple of good ones to the head and come out still concious. To answer your question, I have a 2005 BD Chopper DT with 3500 miles on it. I have a few eletrical issues but I hoping and praying that it is not a sign of things to come. With that said I would pay good money for a rewire that I KNEW was dependable. I have to go along with a few of the other members though and say that for the money these lil beauties cost, to have actually any kind of issue with the bikes either being so new or so few miles on them is just.......................well you know. Now I live in California so to get my bike to Kansas would be out of the question and I know because I've read some of the how to's and articles in the other forums that thew WP rewire seems to be working great for those that have changed to it. So something I could buy already cut and ready to install, fairly easy as long as I follow directions.....ya sounds great.As far as acc. let me just say I say this guy the other day on his pro street with a Nav screen and I swear a 7in.DVD player where the windsheild would normally go.

 

[lee]

Thanks Night Train - great info. I have a question!! I've read that unless you got top shit equipment, testing for continuity is basically a waste of time because all that will do is tell you whether or not you have it (you will have it with a single strand of wire intact inside the casing) and that you should do a voltage drop test instead to gauge the quality of the connection. Do you agree with that?

 

[Moespeeds]

That's what I did with my Dyna 2000i MARV. Just ran power through a switch under my seat, one wire up to the coil, another up to the ignition in the nose cone. It would be better running it through a 3 position key switch, with the way I had it anyone who knew could flip on the switch and push start the bike. It's very simple to do though.

 

[Night Train]

There are times to use continuity/resistance tests and times to measure voltage drop. One test does not necessarily replace the other. Continuity testing is good to tell if you have a closed circuit between one point to another. When you are troubleshooting and trying to figure out why your turn signal does not come on when you hit the button you would perform a continuity test from the hand controls to the ECH. A continuity tester basically measures resistance and if it is below a set limit (.2Ohms for my meter) the audible alarm will beep. If you have one strand left in a wire and preform a voltage drop test you will get a very small value unless that one strand causes a higher resistance. If the one strand caused high resistance chances are the continuity would not beep. Voltage drop testing is a good way to find bad electrical connections or if a wire is under rated for the voltage going thru it. I l usually like to use the 5% rule. The voltage drop should not be more than 5% of the voltage supplied to the wire. If it is, you need to go to a larger gauge wire or clean your connections. All this can be summed up by ohms law. Voltage=Current*Resistance.

Hope this is not too confusing, I'm not a good word artist. There is some truth to you statement but 99% of the time a continuity test will get you what you need. Some future tips specific to you dogs will help clear up when to use a continuity test and when to use a voltage drop or is some cases both.

Thanks Night Train - great info. I have a question!! I've read that unless you got top shit equipment, testing for continuity is basically a waste of time because all that will do is tell you whether or not you have it (you will have it with a single strand of wire intact inside the casing) and that you should do a voltage drop test instead to gauge the quality of the connection. Do you agree with that?

 

[lee]

thanks NT. I guess where I'm coming from is if for example, on a battery cable, which could look fine from the outside, could be all but completely broken on the inside (like an almost complete blockage inside a water pipe). A continuity test would show you have continuity and on a mass produced DMM, not much else. However, if you put the red probe on the end of the wire closest to the battery, and the black probe at the other end of the wire, then the reading on the voltmeter would presumably be quite high, since not much voltage (water pressure in the water pipe analogy) would be getting through. As the voltmeter tests the difference in voltage between the two points then would the voltmeter not give quite a high reading, depending on how much voltage is getting through?

Don't get me wrong NT - I'm not questioning what you're saying I'm just trying to understand this stuff.

 

[Night Train]

No problems Lee. You are not wrong at all and I hope I did not sound like I was saying that you were. I should have added that for low current conditions voltage drop will not tell you much but for hi current like the battery a voltage drop is good. Voltage drop will help you in low current circuits if the input voltage to the module is a voltage critical input. There are times to use voltage drop measurements and times that continuity is sufficient. I'll try to touch on some of those instances in future posts.

thanks NT. I guess where I'm coming from is if for example, on a battery cable, which could look fine from the outside, could be all but completely broken on the inside (like an almost complete blockage inside a water pipe). A continuity test would show you have continuity and on a mass produced DMM, not much else. However, if you put the red probe on the end of the wire closest to the battery, and the black probe at the other end of the wire, then the reading on the voltmeter would presumably be quite high, since not much voltage (water pressure in the water pipe analogy) would be getting through. As the voltmeter tests the difference in voltage between the two points then would the voltmeter not give quite a high reading, depending on how much voltage is getting through?

Don't get me wrong NT - I'm not questioning what you're saying I'm just trying to understand this stuff.

 

[LDO]

NT,
thanks for taking time to do this type of thread!

Possibly a dumb question(s) but I'll throw myself under the bus for 'good of the clan'.

#1 You specify 2005-2009, what is different for performing these same checks on the 04 and below dogs?

#2 Any chance you could provide, when applicable, the different steps to perform checks on the older dogs in your tip of the week threads?:2thumbs:

 

[Night Train]

The 2004 Voltage regulator is not the same as the 2005 and newer. I believe you can perform the same test, they are same company and similar designs however since I was not sure I did not want to post that it was the same test and confuse the issue. You guys with the 2004 can try the test but I cannot guarantee it is accurate.

I started at big dog in the middle of 2006 product release which is pretty much the same system as the 2005. I can speak to the 2005 and new with certainty, in many cases I can speak with certainty on the older bikes as well but when I can not and I have to guess I do not want to speculate and cause you guys more troubles.

 

[LDO]

Fair enough.

Thanks!

 

[hjr525252]

wow...night train...u the man!

 

[hjr525252]

very interesting, been through all the troubles you guys have had and all the hard feeling about the electrical of the bike...id love to change over and keep my controls.