starter questions?

[woodysan]

facts: not opinions!

:flag: I recently purchased my sons 2001 prosport who bought it new in July 2001. It took Andy YEARS to get this bike NOT just to start! but to continue running,he had many of the same problems your newer bikes are having. This is the third starter, a 1.8 this time--it kept getting bigger every time they changed it, they put electric compression releases on it etc. etc.the list is to long to write about. He re-routed the fuel lines himself and can run 70-80 mph without the bike STOPPING, please remember this is a gravity fed system. The bike went back to the factory for numerous problems and actually the only wiring or electrical piece stock on this bike is a Thunderheart brain box between the tanks everything else has been changed,as to the best of my knowledge. Thankfully the BIg Dog has not been in the shop since 11/29/03. One thing I know for SURE is Andy says YOU MUST keep a battery tender on this bike all the time!( we won't discuss battery issue) OH! and a top of the line GEL battery.I"ll not bash BDM but TP Engineering had some real issues about what was used with their engines on Big Dogs,including starters. Hope this helps,a true dog lover, my three dobeys are hungry gotta go. Woody

 

[ChuckRB05]

re

I haven't ran into this problem yet. I did replace the factory battery with a 300+ battery however a while back. I havn't yet installed a bigger cam. Those of you that are having these starting problems, have you installed the bigger cam? Wouldn't the compression releases have to be timed slightly different with the bigger cams? Just a shot in dark.

 

[Front Runner]

I haven't ran into this problem yet. I did replace the factory battery with a 300+ battery however a while back. I havn't yet installed a bigger cam. Those of you that are having these starting problems, have you installed the bigger cam?

My bike is 100% stock. No mods yet.

 

[dingo]

I haven't ran into this problem yet. I did replace the factory battery with a 300+ battery however a while back. I havn't yet installed a bigger cam. Those of you that are having these starting problems, have you installed the bigger cam? Wouldn't the compression releases have to be timed slightly different with the bigger cams? Just a shot in dark.

Other than Mean Mothers exhaust, I'm all stock here.

 

[Harpman]

I have to use the Slam button to start my Prosport, I am having the wiring checked in the spring. But I believe the starter are underpowered and if you add a compression release problem...well. But with the Slam it starts right up but does have that slight hesitation before it turns over. Does anyone else use a Slam starter?

 

[Nomad2day]

Skully,
Could your problem be related to this BDM service bulletin
Neil

2/2/07 SIL-0001 SERVICE INFORMATION LETTER - CURRENT EHC INFORMATION SHEET

TYPE 1 vs. TYPE 2:
All Type 1 EHCs all operate/function the same.
The Type 2 EHC differs from the Type 1 EHC
as follows:
1. Approximate two second delay in start
button operation. The starter button delay
gives the EHC an adequate amount of time
to determine if the engine is running or not.
The EHC will take up to two seconds to
determine the RPM input at idle. This time
is highly RPM dependent. The higher the
RPM, the more data is available from the
sensor, and the EHC can determine the RPM
faster. The EHC is inhibited for two seconds
before allowing the initial start, and two
seconds after the start button is pressed. This
power-up delay allows all EHC inputs to
stabilize prior to normal operation. The start
button release delay ensures that the engine
run state is known before re-engagement of
the starter. The air ride function is affected
for this same reason. When trying to activate
the air ride mode, turn the key to the on
position and wait at least two seconds before
pressing the start button. To simplify
updates in the field and in production the same boot
loader and firmware software is
used for EHCs 172-000007-00 (EFI) and
171-000010-00 (carb). This two second
delay also allows the fuel rail to pressurize
on EFI bikes.

 

[Slow Vince]

Speaking of compression releases I took this from the S&S website...

1. Note that when you are cranking the engine that both releases are opening; this can be done by looking to see of they both drop down or by putting your finger on top and feeling the drop down motion.

Do the CRs kick in after the start button is pushed, or before?

 

[Loafington]

The compression releases are open the instant your finger depresses the start button and do not close until your take your finger off the start button.

 

[bruce]

my bike has done the hard start and loud sound like it is hitting something on start up when it is hot almost since it was new. I had a starter replaced and ring gear (it was messed up from start hitting it)at the same time they replaced clutch all under warranty, the problem went anyway for awhile. but then I had clutch problems again so they replaced the clutch pack again and now I have the starter problem back. I have talked to bob lockwood at customer service at bigdog and he said he was going to turn this problem into the tec. to see if they can find what is causing this, but I think it is a alignment problem or maybe they need to put alittle more of a bevel on the stater gear so it can connect better. well maybe you could call bob lockwood also the more the better.
bruce

 

[dogvet]

I have to use the Slam button to start my Prosport, I am having the wiring checked in the spring. But I believe the starter are underpowered and if you add a compression release problem...well. But with the Slam it starts right up but does have that slight hesitation before it turns over. Does anyone else use a Slam starter?

That's all I use on my 107. There is still a bit of hesitation initially, but that's normal given the short duration of the epa cams that are used (cranking compression increases when valve duration decreases). I run a .600 cam EPA certified on the 107 with a super G carb) most of the time but also run a 631 from time to time. Cranks over easier with the 631, but turds out a bit at low rpm operation.:2thumbs:

 

[dogvet]

The compression releases are open the instant your finger depresses the start button and do not close until your take your finger off the start button.

The compression releases are only activated for the first second of operation. They do not stay on the whole time you hold the starter button.

 

[dogvet]

1. 06 k-9, with 8k in mileage;
after hitting the start button and then the run button , the engine turns over one stroke, stops, has a delay of 2-4 seconds before turning over again and firing up. it sounds like it pulls the battery down, then jumps to life.
and yes guys the battery is good, charged and checked. new starter, etc, etc. the shop has busted there butts trying to get this fixed.

When the engine first stalls, let go of the starter button and press it again, it will roll through the compression stroke. Even when cranking with the releases open, you have over 95 psi of compression. Holding the button for 3-4 seconds is only causing damage to your starter (when it stalls, you get an inrush current of about 300 amps which is hard on the starter brushes and the comutator portion of the armature).

 

[MARV]

also the more fuel at start up the higher the compression.

 

[Loafington]

The compression releases are only activated for the first second of operation. They do not stay on the whole time you hold the starter button.

Wrong. Look at the wiring diagram.

 

[reloaderbmg]

easy to check cr. operation, pull both spark plug wires, crank bike feel the cr go down

 

[Loafington]

You should be able to feel them move as soon as you push the start button in. Like I said earlier, they are on until you stop pressing the start button.

 

[MARV]

Like I said earlier, they are on until you stop pressing the start button.

WRONG!



on our 05 and later BD's the starter switch and the CR's are on 2 separate circuits in the EHC. the CR's turn off after 1 second to get past the comp stroke and to conserve battery power for the starter.

now if your looking at S&S directions for wiring the CR's thats not applicable to our bikes then your just POSTING TRASH! :roll:

 

[BubbleHead]

Ok guys, my starter was banging when hot. It also used to delay when I hit the run/start button then start. Finally one day after getting gas, I hit the run/start button and BAM that metal slamming sound and then wing. The starter jackshaft snapped in two. Towed it to the dealer. They replaced my starter. Now i have a primary leak at the starter. The dealer said he will repair the leak and replace my bad clutch cable at the same time. BUT, BDM says they have never seen anyone's bike snap a jackshaft in two. They wanted my starter back and quick to find why that happened. The dealer says the the compression releases are fine, no issues after downloading the EHC and no apparent cause for the jackshaft to break in half. So I'm riding on a prayer at the moment. Every time i go to hit the starter I hold my breath. Should I have to feel this way every time I go to start my bike. I think not. We'll see what happens from here.

 

[Slow Vince]

The compression releases are only activated for the first second of operation. They do not stay on the whole time you hold the starter button.

Aye. Read The Freakin Manual this evening...

My '07 has started pulling this little trick ~3500 miles, and it's just been an insidious sympton the last couple hundred.

Will have to have quick finger to see if they're depressing...

There are also words about the diagnostics checking this (but of course BDM won't sell them to us "consumers").

I'm wondering if the S&S (free) diags show this?

 

[Loafington]

WRONG!



on our 05 and later BD's the starter switch and the CR's are on 2 separate circuits in the EHC. the CR's turn off after 1 second to get past the comp stroke and to conserve battery power for the starter.

now if your looking at S&S directions for wiring the CR's thats not applicable to our bikes then your just POSTING TRASH! :roll:

Perhaps you should contact BD and S&S and let them know that they are incorrect. They are the ones who told me that they are on for the entire time the starter button is depressed.