click click starter problems

Energy One

rufroggy

Active Member
I know you cleaned the contacts IN the solenoid but you also scrubbed off the contact ON the plunger with emery cloth too, right?

And continuity is good in the solenoid (measured with the power wire disconnected)? I don't know the exact value but the ohms will be pretty low, just not "0".

Do you have 12V on the little power wire WHILE you have the start switch pressed? (If it drops significantly when you press the button there's probably a bad connection somewhere.)

If everything else is good, you hit the start button and there's good power to the solenoid and it has a solid ground but the solenoid still doesn't pull in it has to be a bad starter solenoid...

Dennis
Yes. The contacts IN and ON the plunger. Have not checked the continuity. Did have power when the run button was pushed on the green wire to the solenoid. How much I dont know (used a light) ..All wires are tight on the solenoid..

Have bypassed the key, Changed the circuit board for the run/start side, verified all connectors are connected under tank.

Raywood told me that someone posted a section on testing the starter but I can not find it. If anyone can find it post the link..thanks again all...
 

DRBarnhart

Insert title here...
Have not checked the continuity. Did have power when the run button was pushed on the green wire to the solenoid. How much I dont know (used a light)
You need to know if the windings in the solenoid are intact. You'll just have to break down and fire up your trusty multimeter to find that out... :)

Dennis
 

rufroggy

Active Member
You need to know if the windings in the solenoid are intact. You'll just have to break down and fire up your trusty multimeter to find that out... :)

Dennis
I am a novice by all standards when it comes to using a multimeter.. As a matter of fact, the one I had in the garage wouldnt even work so following your suggestion, I went and bought another.

Battery 13.0 volts; 550 cca

continuity:

I checked the following: hot wire and ground on solenoid; result 0

I checked the hot wire (power off on all test; battery not hooked up) at the battery and at the solenoid; reult; 4

I checked the negative at the battery and starter; result ; 4

I opened the solenoid and checked the contacts; result 0

I checked the soldered wires inside the solenoid; result 5..

diagnosis? Bad Solenoid?
 

Nakashianr

Member
My big Dog is new, but my Harley is an 05' and it had the same problem at the begining of last summer. About 30-40% of the time it's click-click.

No, I haven't fixed it yet.

But I did clean the solenoid contacts, with little improvement. So its the season for riding and I don't want to get that serious with my bike, I've got my wife's intake manifold to replace. Yep, its plastic. First one I've seen.

My short term solution was to go old school. No, not a kick starter! I got replacement cover for the solenoid with a plunger. A very common accessory. They call it a remote starter switch, but it’s actually the opposite. It's as close to the starter as you can get. I'd put one right now on my Big Dog, but I'm not sure it would fit with the wiring that's in front of it. There's nothing better that the feeling you get when your bike won't start and you lean over press this button and she roars to life. All bikes should come with this.

I've been thinking about this ever since. I do a bit of traveling for my job, so the bike often comes up close to last against the house, cars, boat, kids, etc. The wife is on the list somewhere, I'm not saying where, but I did say the bike was close to last. I digress, to me, the list is like this:

Solenoid contacts - Clean or replace

Plunger lubrication - doesn't sound like much, but you know it’s a factor.

Starter relay - easy replace

Starter button - not so easy replace

Battery - Ah yes, the elusive battery, fortunately, easy to replace. Have you every seen a battery that shows good voltage, but won't deliver current worth a damn. Well I have. Almost a paradox.

Connection points - that's every connection in the circuit guys and gals, mostly on the high current side of things. Ohms law tells you that the higher the current in a circuit, the more significant finite resistances become. That's both side of the circuit +12 Vdc and the GROUND side (often forgotten is the frame connection).

Solenoid coils - there's two, a pull-in coil and a hold coil. I'm no expert on the dynamics here, but I'd say a failure in only one could be misleading.

Starter - If you press the button and you get a click with a big voltage drop (sound familiar), chances are the starter is drawing current, just not turning. Great, get a case of beer and remove the starter. That’s a whole exercise itself. Brushes, winding, bearing, the list goes on. It’s going to take a while.

Compression release - Yeah, if it failed and you didn’t notice, your starter has been working a Hell of a lot harder. I'm new to compression release by buying a Big Dog. I love it, but haven't seen all the problems that can surround it.

All this being said, yep, I'm no expert. Yes I'll fix mine, but if the symtoms are the same, the solution may not be the same as yours.

Let me know it you've seen other areas that could cause the problem.

Isn't this fun. You could fill a book...oh, sorry, already did that.

Bob
 
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rufroggy

Active Member
Damn, lot of typing there Bob..

The funny thing is I pulled the solenoid cover off to check the continuity. I put it back together and decided to give it a shot. BAM fired up. 5 attempts 3 starts. It may be a lubicration in the solenoid plunger. I'm assuming it requires a grease? I have no clue. It's bone dry which I thought was a good thing...

Wife made me quit for the night after coming in to get another band aid...because my shop towell bled thru
 

LARS

sippin & cruzin
Ru,I feel your pain,had my bike in the shop,had the mechanic test the starter,that's fine,had the battery checked,that's fine,of course for the three days the bike was in the shop it did not act up once,when it happens to me I get a click,like the switch is sending power to the starter but just click,keep hitting the start button until eventually it starts,than there are days I turn the key and the bitch starts right up,,it's almost like the starter has a dead spot or something,,All I can say is I feel your pain,I just don't get it???If you ever figure it out,let me know what it was,I'll keep you in mind also:cheers:
 

Nakashianr

Member
For some reason, never enough on this topic.

Nothing more frustrating that having the perfect bike under you, with what you know has to be simple electrical continuity problem.

I'm an electrical engineer and this stuff kills me because it usually takes more than that.
 

rufroggy

Active Member
Ru,I feel your pain,had my bike in the shop,had the mechanic test the starter,that's fine,had the battery checked,that's fine,of course for the three days the bike was in the shop it did not act up once,when it happens to me I get a click,like the switch is sending power to the starter but just click,keep hitting the start button until eventually it starts,than there are days I turn the key and the bitch starts right up,,it's almost like the starter has a dead spot or something,,All I can say is I feel your pain,I just don't get it???If you ever figure it out,let me know what it was,I'll keep you in mind also:cheers:
Lars, I kinda look at it this way...Its kinda like a hands on college course without a professor in front of you..At this point, I probably have a C but at least I'm passing! :bang:

So from your post, your Dog is doing the same and still hasnt been fixed? Hopefully I will get it sorted out soon but I promise, it's driving me crazy!
 

Vegas

Well-Known Member
It definitely wasn't the board in the controls if it's clicking at the starter. I don't know if an 04 is controled through the EHC or a relay. Are you sure the click is the solenoid or relay? If it's controled by a relay then you need to check for 12 volts at the solenooid trigger when it won't start. Same would be true with the EHC. It's also very possible everything is working just fine except for your windings and brushes in your starter itself.
 

rufroggy

Active Member
It definitely wasn't the board in the controls if it's clicking at the starter. I don't know if an 04 is controled through the EHC or a relay. Are you sure the click is the solenoid or relay? If it's controled by a relay then you need to check for 12 volts at the solenooid trigger when it won't start. Same would be true with the EHC. It's also very possible everything is working just fine except for your windings and brushes in your starter itself.
Not clicking at the starter. The click is the compression relief valves activating.
 

DRBarnhart

Insert title here...
I am a novice by all standards when it comes to using a multimeter..
You're part of the majority here!!!

diagnosis? Bad Solenoid?
Since this thread has kind of got off the topic of the original post I've posted a "How to" on checking your starter solenoid WITHOUT a multimeter. See if this helps...

http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/how/11356-how-check-your-starter-solenoid.html

Keep in mind that this assumes you have 12V at the small wire of the starter each and everytime you push the start button and that the starter doesn't make a sound... :(

Hope this helps,

Dennis
 

rufroggy

Active Member
ok for everyone thats been following here's a recap. The last and so far final thing that I did to the dog was remove the solenoid cover and resand the contacts with emory cloth. I also added a small amount of grease to the plunger rod. Since, it has started every single time (40+ times) withou an issue. I don't know if I fixed the problem but it's starting every single time now. Thanks for everyones help and patience and hopefully the next update will be "it's still running!"
 

rufroggy

Active Member
Well spoke to soon...Damn it! I took the dog out for a 15 minute ride to get it warmed up (or hot) to check things out. Rode it back to the house, killed it and once again no start.

WTF? Almost ready to give up. As much fun (???) as I have had wrenching on this thing, I'm getting a little annoyed. Thought I would keep everyone updated to the bad with the good..
 

Vegas

Well-Known Member
When it doesn't start you need to verify if you have power to the solenoid or not. If you do, then the starter windings may be bad and the heat from riding may cause them to act up. Get her good and hot by taking it out or letting it run in the garage. If it fails to start, make sure to leave it in the run position for testing.
 

rufroggy

Active Member
When it doesn't start you need to verify if you have power to the solenoid or not. If you do, then the starter windings may be bad and the heat from riding may cause them to act up. Get her good and hot by taking it out or letting it run in the garage. If it fails to start, make sure to leave it in the run position for testing.
and check the "green" wire to the solenoid? If so I did that already and I had power at ignition source wire (green)>
 

05chop

Well-Known Member
Did you pull starter off and get it bench checked yet? Just to refresh my brain arent you the person who works for Strokerdallas?
 
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