Thunder Heart EHC

[MossBerg590]

So what was the fix for the stock BD right and left hand controls? Does anyone know what lead supply's the boards with power? I am close to being finished with my install except for the turn signals and brake lights.
G

Did you buy this?
http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Heart...r=8-3&keywords=thunder+heart+momentary+switch

This is needed for the big dog hand controls

 

[Th3InfamousI]

My 2004 is on the factory Thunderheart

04 was the first year of the EHC. 03 and Older used Thunderheart and Harley style handcontrols.

In your 04 you do have a Thunderheart Ignition Module but NOT a Thunderheart Control Board (If It's Original).


There's a lot of confusing information in this thread. Remember 04+ require NON Harley Style Control Setup if you want to use the stock boards and levers. 5v to the handlebars, and as far as I am aware purchasing a Thunderheart directly from the manufacturer will not get you that.

 

[MossBerg590]

All you need for 04 and up is the thunderheart asm4260 and the momentary switch ea4093

 

[GDOG_PITBULL]

All you need for 04 and up is the thunderheart asm4260 and the momentary switch ea4093

I have both of those but the exact cross connect is still a mystery to me. Do I need to supply power from the TH to the R/L control boards? I need to get voltage to the cmd inputs of the TH controller for the blinkers to activate. Not sure I have wired it correctly. The additional module does not seem to help with the diagram provided by TH.
G

 

[GDOG_PITBULL]

04 was the first year of the EHC. 03 and Older used Thunderheart and Harley style handcontrols.

In your 04 you do have a Thunderheart Ignition Module but NOT a Thunderheart Control Board (If It's Original).


There's a lot of confusing information in this thread. Remember 04+ require NON Harley Style Control Setup if you want to use the stock boards and levers. 5v to the handlebars, and as far as I am aware purchasing a Thunderheart directly from the manufacturer will not get you that.

How did you wire yours? Diagram by any chance?
Thanks
G

 

[Th3InfamousI]

All you need for 04 and up is the thunderheart asm4260 and the momentary switch ea4093

Quite Possible, is that what you have yours wired with? I haven't seen any information on what that switch does, is it new? I'll have to read the tech documents if I can find them.

This is the first I'm hearing of a switch to bolt on to the stock thunderheart so please pardon my scepticism. I'll read the tech sheet, but I typically don't like to recommend anything I don't have personal experience with.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

How did you wire yours? Diagram by any chance?
Thanks
G

Mine is wired with a WP going on about 4 years and 10k trouble free miles. I've heard the WP modules just don't seem to have the same QC as they used to unfortunately people are having problems with them and they are a pain to install.

My other bike is wired with a PDM by the previous owner who got a local shop to put it in so I dint have personal install experience with it like I did with the WP. But it Has worked fine for 6k miles.

So back to the point of this thread is there a reason for not going with the RIP kit which KMW came out with, which is the converted Thunderheart? Seems like we are all trying to get to the same place?

Although If that switch does the trick it looks like it will save you $200 or so

 

[Th3InfamousI]

All you need for 04 and up is the thunderheart asm4260 and the momentary switch ea4093

Quite Possible, is that what you have yours wired with? I haven't seen any information on what that switch does, is it new? I'll have to read the tech documents if I can find them.

This is the first I'm hearing of a switch to bolt on to the stock thunderheart so please pardon my skepticism. I'll read the tech sheet, but I typically don't like to recommend anything I don't have personal experience with.

So I just read the spec sheet on that switch it's simply a switch to go from a "latching" to a "momentary" switch. all of the BD controls are indeed by definition a momentary switch, Most Harleys use a combo of both latching and momentary hence the need for that switch. The thunderheart module only recognizes "latching", think off the off/on switch on a Harley.

However even tho it changes it from latching to momentary it still keeps it a 12v system which isn't compatible with the stock 04+ BD hand controls. You would still need some type of relay.

To follow this up I don't know exactly what you need to make a standard thunderheart work, but I can assure you that switch won't work.

 

[MossBerg590]

I have the thunderheart in the shed waiting to install it. I did a ton of research and plenty threads on here and everyone said that I would need the 4260 module and the only way for the big dog controls to work properly would be to have the momentary switch from thunderheart

 

[MossBerg590]

So I just read the spec sheet on that switch it's simply a switch to go from a "latching" to a "momentary" switch. all of the BD controls are indeed by definition a momentary switch, Most Harleys use a combo of both latching and momentary hence the need for that switch. The thunderheart module only recognizes "latching", think off the off/on switch on a Harley.

However even tho it changes it from latching to momentary it still keeps it a 12v system which isn't compatible with the stock 04+ BD hand controls. You would still need some type of relay.

To follow this up I don't know exactly what you need to make a standard thunderheart work, but I can assure you that switch won't work.

You got that backwards. Yes the big dogs have momentary switches, this momentary switch converter switches the momentary to latching which is needed to work with the thunder heart module so the momentary switch converter is needed.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

You got that backwards. Yes the big dogs have momentary switches, this momentary switch converter switches the momentary to latching which is needed to work with the thunder heart module so the momentary switch converter is needed.

Right, it is needed What I was trying to say is its not the only thing you need. you will still need a relay since BD don't have 12v going to the bars. Those PCB switche boards won't last with 12v, it's not designed too.

 

[GDOG_PITBULL]

So Thunder Heart tech support tells me that the unit is not compatible with our bikes....WTF
G

 

[Th3InfamousI]

So Thunder Heart tech support tells me that the unit is not compatible with our bikes....WTF
G

Its compatible with a fair amount of extra work. I've been trying to help here but Mossberg has rebutted everything I've said.

BDM stock controls use ground input switches. You CANT just bolt Harley harnesses on without additional relays. And just going from latching to momentary still doesn't solve the problem that Harley controllers will send +12v at all your switches which won't get you where you need to be.

There is definitely people on this board smarter than me who may be able to give you a part number on the relay you need. I'm guessing the guys at KMW have the relays installed in the unit to make the conversion work. But since I've never seen one I can't say with 100% confidence.

Maybe DB will chime in, I would say he is the resident electrical engineer and he's got me some random part numbers before.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

I have the thunderheart in the shed waiting to install it. I did a ton of research and plenty threads on here and everyone said that I would need the 4260 module and the only way for the big dog controls to work properly would be to have the momentary switch from thunderheart

just saw this post

Where are the threads on an install for the 4260? Nobody has done it yet and posted what you need for an install for an 04+. If they did I missed it and those are the posts I like the most so please put the link in here to help This guy out.

Older dogs have, sure they can run it with their Harley switches.

 

[MossBerg590]

Right, it is needed What I was trying to say is its not the only thing you need. you will still need a relay since BD don't have 12v going to the bars. Those PCB switche boards won't last with 12v, it's not designed too.

I talked to Curtis about the voltage concern with the thunder heart, he said the boards are actually rated at 145 volts so 12 volts going to it wont matter and that nothing is needed for the 4260 to work except the momentary switch converter.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

I talked to Curtis about the voltage concern with the thunder heart, he said the boards are actually rated at 145 volts so 12 volts going to it wont matter and that nothing is needed for the 4260 to work except the momentary switch converter.

Thats difficult to fathom the board would be over engineered like that. Think there's some articles stating like 100mA @12v. These were designed to use negative current after all. Regardless, Of voltage What about the negative signal that your rear brake uses to activate how do u get that to work sending + to the controls? Review all the posts prior to 2012 and there's lots of electrical detail as no other options were available.

I feel a quote from the late 1800's is appropriate here: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

I'm not saying it can't be done but if all along we could have taken a Harley controller and wired it up to a BD we wouldn't have had companies create a WP, PDM, RIP, or Docs EHC. They would have taken it off the shelf.

If the 4260 worked with the switch module thunderheart would be selling as such and quoting it. Why not, it's in their best interest to sell parts right?

Trust me I'd love to see it work! I really would. I have my doubts, not that it can't work, but I highly doubt you only need those two components. I encourage you to try and please post a how to as I'm sure lots of guys would like it as it <$350 in parts.

As the final note Even If you get it to work for that price .....is saving $250 worth 4-6+ extra hrs of install time? That's a decision only the person installing it can make and there's no right or wrong answer there.

Good luck!

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Now in an effort to try a help GDog, since he already has the module and no chance in returning it. I would look into calling WP and buy just the switch module of the WP unit. That should get you the low current and negative ground switching you need. But the price is probably expensive for what it does. Relays are cheap.

Check out this guys post and wiring diagram. He needed a lot of relays.
http://www.bigdogbiker.com/index.php?posts/479260

 

[KaptinAmerika]

You don't need anything special for the hand controls.
I have installed a number of these kits from KMW and I can tell you they have done nothing special for the hand controls.
I can also tell you from personal experience that the older style PCB board does not work in all cases.
I can't tell you why only that I have had a couple of situations where the old style board refused to work with the kit. After installing a set of the newer PCB boards all the issues went away.
The info I gave earlier about the voltage came right from the horses mouth so doubt it if you want.

 

[GDOG_PITBULL]

You don't need anything special for the hand controls.
I have installed a number of these kits from KMW and I can tell you they have done nothing special for the hand controls.
I can also tell you from personal experience that the older style PCB board does not work in all cases.
I can't tell you why only that I have had a couple of situations where the old style board refused to work with the kit. After installing a set of the newer PCB boards all the issues went away.
The info I gave earlier about the voltage came right from the horses mouth so doubt it if you want.

Curtis,
Can you give some insight on the difference between what you installed and the stock device? Tech support (Kieth) states it does not work on BDM..yet.....



Part #:
ASM4260

Item:

Thunder Heart Performance is pleased to announce the availability of their new Micro Harness Controller!

The P/N ASM4260 Micro Harness Controller consolidates all of the electronic functions of a motorcycle (with the exception of instrumentation and engine management) into one, easy-to-hide system! The Micro Harness Controller avoids the wiring “bird’s nest” of other systems so you spend less time wiring your bike…and more time riding!

Perfect for choppers and saddle tank bikes, the Micro Harness Controller system includes a billet aluminum controller housing, un-terminated “fantail” harness, shrink tubing, and all necessary connectors, and a comprehensive instruction and troubleshooting manual. The result is a durable, professional installation.

·Compact design is easily hidden on custom motorcycles
·Performs all fuse, relay, and signal canceling functions in
one simple package
·Provides multiple flasher combinations (signal canceling,
hazard lights, and tri-state indicators), running lights, brake
lights, and turn signal from one bulb
·Reduces size, weight, and overall complexity of the
electrical system
·Utilizes relays to distribute all power functions, thus
eliminating the need to run large wires to all the switches
·Small size of controller housing allows multiple
mounting locations…both visible and hidden
·Weather resistant connections for trouble-free use in
extreme environments
·Comprehensive installation and troubleshooting manual
to minimize installation time

I want to find a way to make this work before I start a shitstorm aimed at TH and any dealers that propagate their bullshit!
I AM NOT INSINUATING ANYTHING AT ANYONE AT THIS TIME!
Just want my shit working!
Thanks for any guidance you may be able to give.
G

 

[GDOG_PITBULL]

Now in an effort to try a help GDog, since he already has the module and no chance in returning it. I would look into calling WP and buy just the switch module of the WP unit. That should get you the low current and negative ground switching you need. But the price is probably expensive for what it does. Relays are cheap.

Check out this guys post and wiring diagram. He needed a lot of relays.
http://www.bigdogbiker.com/index.php?posts/479260

Thanks man!
G