EHC replacement

Energy One
Axel

Axel

Active Member
Hi,

Just an update: I got a return of an EHC where the customer had a short circuit at the horn output cable in the harness. The box had smoked and there was a hole inside. The internal self resettable fuses ( 2 x 9 Ampere parallel in the main line ) had not trip what followed in a burned copper track. I have checked the data sheet of the fuses and have seen that the trip time is far too much. I called to the distributor here and they also told me that the trip time measurements were made in the air and not in potting compound. A potting compound will increase the trip time due to the heatsink function of the potting material. So, I´ll try to change the main fuse to a 7 Ampere device what can also drive the starter solenoid ( 18 Ampere ) for about 20 seconds at 20 degree until it will switch off ( look at page 14, diagram K, RUEF700 of the pdf ). The maximum current of a bike is about 6 Ampere when running and the flashers, brake light and front light are on. So, the smaller main fuse will protect the EHC a bit better. However, I have increased some copper paths in the box and have add one more fuse for the ignition / tach, speedometer / tag light and brake light. I attach the actual schema:

Schema.png

Additional I´ll cover the main fuse with self adhesive foam board pcs in order to insulate it a bit thermal from the potting compound and make it more conform to the white papers of the fuses. I don´t know it these changes will cover every issue in the harness but I believe it will improve the life time a bit. I think that BD had the same problems within the years and maybe their internal fuses in the EHC where useless as well due to the potting compound. I just ordered new boards and will test. I hope it will not be a never ending story...

All the best!
Axel
 

Attachments

Th3InfamousI

Th3InfamousI

Administrator
Staff member
Axel said:
Hi,

Just an update: I got a return of an EHC where the customer had a short circuit at the horn output cable in the harness. The box had smoked and there was a hole inside. The internal self resettable fuses ( 2 x 9 Ampere parallel in the main line ) had not trip what followed in a burned copper track. I have checked the data sheet of the fuses and have seen that the trip time is far too much. I called to the distributor here and they also told me that the trip time measurements were made in the air and not in potting compound. A potting compound will increase the trip time due to the heatsink function of the potting material. So, I´ll try to change the main fuse to a 7 Ampere device what can also drive the starter solenoid ( 18 Ampere ) for about 20 seconds at 20 degree until it will switch off ( look at page 14, diagram K, RUEF700 of the pdf ). The maximum current of a bike is about 6 Ampere when running and the flashers, brake light and front light are on. So, the smaller main fuse will protect the EHC a bit better. However, I have increased some copper paths in the box and have add one more fuse for the ignition / tach, speedometer / tag light and brake light. I attach the actual schema:

View attachment 34777

Additional I´ll cover the main fuse with self adhesive foam board pcs in order to insulate it a bit thermal from the potting compound and make it more conform to the white papers of the fuses. I don´t know it these changes will cover every issue in the harness but I believe it will improve the life time a bit. I think that BD had the same problems within the years and maybe their internal fuses in the EHC where useless as well due to the potting compound. I just ordered new boards and will test. I hope it will not be a never ending story...

All the best!
Axel
Click to expand...
Someone had mentioned previously they used parts in the box not made to be potted. Very well could be same issue

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Axel

Axel

Active Member
Hi Eric,

Yes, it´s the same what the distributor told that the time parameters will change. Howevr, I just tested 1 EHC with the 7 Ampere fuse on my tester and my bike with 19 Ampere starter current. I had the following results with the board just connected to the tester or bike without potting:

Tester:
20 degree Celsius Start - > 16 seconds trip time
40 degree Celsius Start - > 13 seconds trip time

Bike:
22 degree Celsius Start - > after 16 seconds 80 degree Celsius without trip. I didn´t wanted to hold the starter button longer :-/

I just potted the EHC and will test again in a few hours when the material is dry and cold. I´ll come back with the result asap.

All the best!
Axel
 
Axel

Axel

Active Member
Hi,

I just tried the same board, potted in the normal compound. It takes 42 seconds (!) with a 7 Ampere fuse until it switches off the box at the tester due to the heatsink function of the potting material. I have put the EHC in my Ridgeback but don´t wanted to hold the starter button for this time.

However, the fuses are a bit useless when hanging in the potting compound. I´ll let the EHC in my bike and will test it within the next weeks but I´ll take care to cover the fuses before potting or will reduce it to a lower value.

By the way, I have potted the EHC without the black paint. Do you think it makes sense to let it in this way also for the serial production?

EHC.jpg

It will makes it easier to identify an issue in the box as long as it is a problem with the copper tracks in case of short circuits. However, it looks a bit more raw in my opinion. What is your suggestion?

All the best!
Axel
 
Th3InfamousI

Th3InfamousI

Administrator
Staff member
Axel said:
Hi,

I just tried the same board, potted in the normal compound. It takes 42 seconds (!) with a 7 Ampere fuse until it switches off the box at the tester due to the heatsink function of the potting material. I have put the EHC in my Ridgeback but don´t wanted to hold the starter button for this time.

However, the fuses are a bit useless when hanging in the potting compound. I´ll let the EHC in my bike and will test it within the next weeks but I´ll take care to cover the fuses before potting or will reduce it to a lower value.

By the way, I have potted the EHC without the black paint. Do you think it makes sense to let it in this way also for the serial production?

View attachment 34791

It will makes it easier to identify an issue in the box as long as it is a problem with the copper tracks in case of short circuits. However, it looks a bit more raw in my opinion. What is your suggestion?

All the best!
Axel
Click to expand...
I think the clear potting is cool. I agree makes it easier for users to see if something was fried.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk
 
Matheny 514

Matheny 514

Active Member
Logically for diag purposes I'd say leave it clear, that makes it easier to identify an issue. The clear look is neat.
 
BadDawg Bill

BadDawg Bill

Well-Known Member
TapioK said:
That was new to me! Always thought BD controls and wires were designed just for 5 V.


Tapio
Click to expand...
They are just for 5v. You use the BD thin ground wires to switch on the 12v on the relay. A ground is sent to the relay which then switches on the 12v. The BD wires only use a ground. You would have to use a lot of relays to make it work.
 
Last edited:
Rottweiler

Rottweiler

Well-Known Member
Axel,
Very interesting info. so the fuses are not working very well. Which leads back to another question. What size fuse should be used to feed the EHC ? Is 25 amp ok or should it be lower? If the head light is off when starting maybe a 20 amp would work?
Thanks you for you work. Keep us posted.
 
Axel

Axel

Active Member
Hi Todd,

Yes, pls. give me some days to find out more about the self resettable fuses and trying out what is not noted in the specs. However a 20 Ampere fuse in the main line of the harness will work in the meanwhile and a few of the outputs are good protected already. My Ridgeback just need between 18 and 20 Ampere and a standard fuse will need some seconds to open when 20 Ampere are present. However I prefer the slf resettable fuses if possible. The 20 ampere fuse might be an option when everything else will fail.

All the best!
Axel
 
Kobi

Kobi

Member
Axel,
Do you suggest adding an external fuse to all your modules or just on the 4C? I am interested in your 58C module for my 08 Ridgeback-carb, and want to be clear on what's involved for the installation. Thanks, Kurt
 
Axel

Axel

Active Member
Hi Kurt,

I think that an external fuse will help a bit. However, a 20 Ampere fuse will not open if currents around 20 Ampere are present and will need some minutes if currents of maybe 25 Ampere are present. It´s funny, I just tried a 25 ampere fuse with higher currents and I had need more than 30 seconds to destroy it with 35 Ampere. My fingers were hot already when the fuse opened...

fuse.jpg

I just made the same experiment again with an other 25 Ampere fuse, what was broken in about 1 second when I increased the current to 60 Ampere. So, an external fuse will help a bit and might protect the bike as long as the cables in the harness what are responsible for the short circuit can withstand more than 20 Ampere for a moment but it is not a 100 % solution. Sorry Kurt, I know you want to get a more clear answer like yes or no, but it´s only a maybe ;-)

However, the currents are higher in most cases of shortcircuits what reduce the trip time and I´ll play a bit around with the self resettable fuses within the next weeks and I think I´ll find a good compromise, what will help to survive. It will not cover all situations but even an external fuse will not cover everything and I don´t want to put a complete fusebox in my bike what is the only (almost) perfect solution.

All the best!
Axel
 
Kobi

Kobi

Member
I just installed on one of Axels Modules. Very easy to install, just having to drill one hole. I really like the ability to change functions like headlamp, turn signal flashes and the flicker brake lamp. I'm expecting not to use my battery tender as much too, since this module has such small draw. I did not have issues with my original factory EHC, just always worried the thing was going to leave me stranded!!
I considered the RIP module/rewire too. To me, just replacing the EHC was the simple thing to do. Other than increased water resistance, why replace the rear harness?? Two year warranty also a plus!!
I'm impressed..
Kurt
 
Axel

Axel

Active Member
Hi,

Thanks for the infos. It is nice to read. However, I still "play" with the resettable fuses and I´m already down to one 6 Ampere (!) main fuse what can withstand the 20 ampere for the starter solenoid for about 25 seconds with 22 degree Celsius ambience temperature. Then I warmed up the EHC in a hot water pot up to 55 degree Celsius and tested again. The switch off time decreased to about 6 seconds. The delay time before switching off increased to about 12 seconds after cooling down to 41 degree Celsius, what is fine in my opinion. I attach a few pics:

EHC1.JPG
EHC2.JPG
EHC3.jpg EHC4.jpg


At the second infrared pic you can see the warm main cables and the 2 cables what goes to the resistor load bank after some seconds with 20 Ampere load...

I had ride about 100 km 2 days ago and everything is ok with about 25 degree ambience temperature. However, the summer is almost over and I don´t know how to test it in a bike with higher ambience temperatures. I think about to "boil" the EHC again within the next weeks when the weather will allow and put it again in my bike but this only a momentary test until the EHC is cool again after 10 - 15 minutes. However, I think we are on the right way but there still might be a bit room for improvements. Let´s see...

All the best!
Axel
 
Axel

Axel

Active Member
Hi,

This is good to read. Unfortunaly I got the message from Eric that his EHC from June died yesterday :-( So, not perfect yet and he will get the new version soon...

However, here is a small update: I had the idea this morning to pot one 6 Ampere fuse in an empty box what should simulate the "real life EHC" and I overloaded his fuse with 8 Ampere this afternoon when the potting material was hard. After 14 minutes was the temperature at 48 degree Celsius and the temperature reached almost 52 degree Celsius after 40 minutes. This temperature had not changed even after after more than one hour. Then I simulated the starter solenoid with 20 Ampere with the warm EHC and the fuse switched off after about 5 seconds. The temperature decreased to about 42 degree after one hour when I reduced the current to 6 Ampere. So, I think the minimum main fuse value is 6 Ampere for ambience temperatures of up to 50 degree. I believe that a 5 Ampere will make trouble in the "normal life" if ambience temperatures are high. Here are the pics:

EHC1.JPG

EHC2.jpg EHC3.jpg

My Ridgeback need somewhere between 5,5 and 6,5 Ampere in normal use with headlights on and no horn button pressed. Does somebody know the additonal current consumption of the EFI module? I´m sure that I got the info sometime but I simply forgot it. Thanks a lot in advance!

All the best!
Axel
 
Th3InfamousI

Th3InfamousI

Administrator
Staff member
Your referring to a 6amp inboard self reseting fuse. Yes? Not referring to the 20 amp ACP inline?

What about low voltage? What if box gets say 11volts?

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Kobi

Kobi

Member
Axel,
What was the symptom Eric had with his EHC? Should I be concerned that the EHC I just installed may suffer the same fate?
Kurt
 
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