Oil not returning to oil tank?

[Glenn]

I noticed my oil light blinking on my k-9 while riding to work so I returned home. I was sure there was enough oil but I poured some more in while the engine was running and the oil in the tank would not fill up. I shut her off and checked a few hours later and there is no oil showing in the Oil tank! Crap!

So I assume the oil is either in my crankcase or primary due to maybe a blown crankcase oil seal? I just installed a new seal (backwards) on the crankshaft when I reinstalled my transmission about 800 miles ago.

Any thoughts out there?

thanks,

Glenn

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Drain the primary see how much oil comes out and go from there.

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[Glenn]

Yep that was my next thought too lol! Thanks!

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Shouldn't be a problem putting that seal in backwards...quite frankly that makes it easier to pull out next time. I actually wish I put it in backwards last time I replaced it it's a pain in the ass to get out.

Maybe you didn't get it fully seated?


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[BWG56]

Shouldn't be a problem putting that seal in backwards...quite frankly that makes it easier to pull out next time. I actually wish I put it in backwards last time I replaced it it's a pain in the ass to get out.

Maybe you didn't get it fully seated?
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WTH, did ya bump your head?

 

[Th3InfamousI]

WTH, did ya bump your head?

The oil crank seal?

It doesn't matter one way or the other. If you got an open primary baker tells you to flip it anyways so you don't get shit in there. Doesn't do anything though in terms of keeping oil out.

This is the one I'm talking about. Keeps engine oil in the engine and primary oil in the primary no matter what way you face it that's it's only job.

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[BWG56]

If it was an open primary then he would know where the oil went, cause it would be all over the back of the bike.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

If it was an open primary then he would know where the oil went, cause it would be all over the back of the bike.

But it doesn't matter if it's open or not the seal function remains the same.

Actually you don't even need to flip it I think baker only puts that in their instructions so that way people put a new seal in...


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[SKOGDOG]

Shouldn't be a problem putting that seal in backwards...quite frankly that makes it easier to pull out next time. I actually wish I put it in backwards last time I replaced it it's a pain in the ass to get out.

Maybe you didn't get it fully seated?


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Also--it could be the engine oil draining down into the sump. My K9 does that. It doesn't hurt anything as best I can tell, but when the hot engine is shut off, the oil can drain down into the sump. But I don't like it that your oil light came on and you weren't able to top off the oil tank. Did you add a lot?
In order to get an accurate check on your engine oil level, you have to run the bike to full operating temperature (15-20 minutes), then shut it off and check the oil immediately, before It can drain into the sump. Alternately you might drain the engine oil from the tank and then take out the sump plug (that Allen head under the engine) to drain the sump, and then you can measure how many quarts of oil are in the engine.
As Eric says, if more than a quart comes out of the primary, that's damn sure more than you put in..... So if your transmission is full, it's the crank seal leaking engine oil. And backwards or forwards, it shouldn't be able to leak that much.... It occurs to me you wouldn't even have to drain the primary...just take off the inspection plate and see what happens....
Please do keep us posted as to what you find...this is interesting.....

 

[ground pounder]

The only way your oil can drain into the sump like that is if the oil pump check valves are letting the oil leak past when its sitting!!!

 

[BadDawg Bill]

It's all in your suckdanator.... check that out....

 

[SKOGDOG]

The only way your oil can drain into the sump like that is if the oil pump check valves are letting the oil leak past when its sitting!!!

I took mine apart, replaced the ball, stretched the spring a bit, re-faced and polished the ball bearing seat, and oil still seeps back down into the sump. Is there more than one check valve? I rebuilt my oil pump and thought there was only one check valve---#89 below....this has remained a mystery to me (as do many things these years).

 

[Th3InfamousI]

I took mine apart, replaced the ball, stretched the spring a bit, re-faced and polished the ball bearing seat, and oil still seeps back down into the sump. Is there more than one check valve? I rebuilt my oil pump and thought there was only one check valve---#89 below....this has remained a mystery to me (as do many things these years). View attachment 44403

Gravity will always feed it down nothing you can do.

Even when I installed a brand new pump and stronger oil pump spring it would still drain down into the Cam chest on the k9 a bit.



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[Glenn]

Also--it could be the engine oil draining down into the sump. My K9 does that. It doesn't hurt anything as best I can tell, but when the hot engine is shut off, the oil can drain down into the sump. But I don't like it that your oil light came on and you weren't able to top off the oil tank. Did you add a lot?
In order to get an accurate check on your engine oil level, you have to run the bike to full operating temperature (15-20 minutes), then shut it off and check the oil immediately, before It can drain into the sump. Alternately you might drain the engine oil from the tank and then take out the sump plug (that Allen head under the engine) to drain the sump, and then you can measure how many quarts of oil are in the engine.
As Eric says, if more than a quart comes out of the primary, that's damn sure more than you put in..... So if your transmission is full, it's the crank seal leaking engine oil. And backwards or forwards, it shouldn't be able to leak that much.... It occurs to me you wouldn't even have to drain the primary...just take off the inspection plate and see what happens....
Please do keep us posted as to what you find...this is interesting.....

1) I pulled inspection cover off primary and used a suction tube to take oil sample. It is primary oil and is not overfilled. So I think this rules out a blown crank seal.

2) Transmission oil is also fine and not diluted or low.

3) Crankcase oil screen clear - no blockages

My bike has never drained oil into the sump before while sitting. There has always been oil in the filler tube to indicate the oil level whether hot or cold.

I have no oil in the filler tube and know I have put in about a half quart or more. Im very ocd on checking my oil so I know it did not run low from use. Something here is amiss. May be an oil pump failure - not sure. Bike has less than 12k miles.

I'm reluctant to pour any more oil in as I don't want to over-pressure the crankcase and screw something else up.

1) Would installing a oil pressure gauge at this point possibly tell me that I have an oil pump issue?

2) Would draining the crank sump and oil tank really tell me anything?

3) My oil light is blinking and oil does not seem to be returning to the oil tank - is this telling me I have a pump problem?

If there is an easy way to check my oil pump please chime in...


Thanks guys for your feedback every-little bit helps!

 

[Th3InfamousI]

1) I pulled inspection cover off primary and used a suction tube to take oil sample. It is primary oil and is not overfilled. So I think this rules out a blown crank seal.

2) Transmission oil is also fine and not diluted or low.

3) Crankcase oil screen clear - no blockages

My bike has never drained oil into the sump before while sitting. There has always been oil in the filler tube to indicate the oil level whether hot or cold.

I have no oil in the filler tube and know I have put in about a half quart or more. Im very ocd on checking my oil so I know it did not run low from use. Something here is amiss. May be an oil pump failure - not sure. Bike has less than 12k miles.

I'm reluctant to pour any more oil in as I don't want to over-pressure the crankcase and screw something else up.

1) Would installing a oil pressure gauge at this point possibly tell me that I have an oil pump issue?

2) Would draining the crank sump and oil tank really tell me anything?

3) My oil light is blinking and oil does not seem to be returning to the oil tank - is this telling me I have a pump problem?

If there is an easy way to check my oil pump please chime in...


Thanks guys for your feedback every-little bit helps!

I would run it to warm! Add oil till its full and ride it. See what happens.

Installing a mechanical gauge would be good too. I was wondering if ya had one

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[Th3InfamousI]

My bike sat for almost 5 months with no such issues it shouldn't and isn't normal for and if the oil fills the crankcase from sitting something is going on there

Pitbull won't have any of the issues I'm describing because your oil tank is below the pump. Gravity doesn't work that way....

I watched it on a brand new pump...it happens over night..believe me. It will be about 1/2-3/4 quarts short. It's also how people over fill their oil...

And your right I don't have that issue on the ridgeback


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[Th3InfamousI]

That still doesn't seem right, even alicias tejas has an oil tank above the oil pump I'll have to keep an eye on it and see what it does it's been sitting now not run for a couple of days on a side note I noticed the 111 has no tapper screen and the manual doesn't mention it either what's up with that?

Check the oil level before you start it next time...then run it for about 3-4 minutes and check the oil right after you turn it off.

If it has a dipstick you will see the oil level will have increased. It's not a lot, 1/2 quart or so.






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[Th3InfamousI]

It will be hard to see the difference without a dipstick.

Regardless of this his low oil light wouldn't go on because of only being a 1/2 quart low.



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[SKOGDOG]

1) I pulled inspection cover off primary and used a suction tube to take oil sample. It is primary oil and is not overfilled. So I think this rules out a blown crank seal.
Good deal..this means your seals are good.
2) Transmission oil is also fine and not diluted or low.
Ditto
3) Crankcase oil screen clear - no blockages
Good
My bike has never drained oil into the sump before while sitting. There has always been oil in the filler tube to indicate the oil level whether hot or cold.
OK
I have no oil in the filler tube and know I have put in about a half quart or more. Im very ocd on checking my oil so I know it did not run low from use. Something here is amiss. May be an oil pump failure - not sure. Bike has less than 12k miles.
Your idiot light is troubling. Could be low pressure from oil pump failure or low amount of oil. Have you bent or crimped a braided oil line? That happened to Eric, and his suggestion of a mechanical gauge to check oil pressure is a very good idea.

I'm reluctant to pour any more oil in as I don't want to over-pressure the crankcase and screw something else up.
When U overfill K9 it tends to spit it out and make a mess. One thing you could easily do is to completely drain your oil system (engine and sump). Then you know how much oil is in there. Just use a clean pan so you can re-use it.then you know it has 3 qts.

1) Would installing a oil pressure gauge at this point possibly tell me that I have an oil pump issue?
Yes..only if the engine has oil in it.
2) Would draining the crank sump and oil tank really tell me anything?
Yes, because you can empty the oil tank and see how much oil is in it.
Then you can empty the sump and measure that and add the two amounts. Should be about 3 qts. But if you have been adding there will be more. If you are correct about the primary being OK, that oil has to be somewhere in there.
Normally the sump holds about a half quart or so, so if you get a quart or more, it's seeping down.


3) My oil light is blinking and oil does not seem to be returning to the oil tank - is this telling me I have a pump problem?

An oil pressure gauge would be illuminating here.
I'd suggest you drain your oil and measure 3 quarts, and return that to the engine. Make sure you have the correct filter too....then attach an oil pressure gauge and fire it up to see what you have.
If you have good oil pressure, take it out and ride it until it's good and hot, then check your oil every 5 minutes until it doesn't measure on the dipstick anymore. You know it went into the sump. No place else to go.
Understand the oil pump is actually two oil pumps...(see image in post #14 above)--one that gets oil from the tank and sends it to the upper and lower engine to lube valve train, crank, and all critical parts under higher pressure. That oil drains back down into the sump..The other half of the pump picks up that oil from the sump, sends it through the oil filter, then returns it to the tank.
Net effect: If the tank has oil in it and the pump is working correctly, your bike has oil pressure from the instant you start it--doesn't matter if it is in the sump, because when you start the bike, the return oil pump gets busy sending the sump oil back to the tank.

 

[SKOGDOG]

One More thing..I would do all of the above, but not do anything else until I confirmed other a mechanical gauge that there is adequate oil pressure. The oil bypass port opens at 24 psi, so normal pressure in startup will be below that. I do not know what is expected and can't find it in the manual.