Starting issues

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benscheidhauer

New Member
New spark plugs
New battery
New clutch plates (friction and steal)
All new oil

Clutch release maxed out

When trying to start it turns over 3 or 4 times like it wants to start, but then stops

Back tire won't turn in first gear, but will in neutral

With Clutch case off it wanted to start up just fine (but didn't cz not supposed to run it with the case off)

Any ideas or suggestions are welcome!!
 

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Mikeinjersey

Mikeinjersey

Well-Known Member
Welcome from NJ,
Not sure what bike you have but if your problems started after you put the clutch plates in take them out and see what happens. Your explanation doesn't make much sense. Does the bike lurch forward when your trying to start it?
This link will help you understand the relationship between the Engine , transmission and clutch.

 
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benscheidhauer

New Member
Mikeinjersey said:
Welcome from NJ,
Not sure what bike you have but if your problems started after you put the clutch plates in take them out and see what happens. Your explanation doesn't make much sense. Does the bike lurch forward when your trying to start it?
This link will help you understand the relationship between the Engine , transmission and clutch.

Click to expand...
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I have a 99 Honda Magna.

I took the case off before when it wasn't working, and cranked it over and it started just fine. I put the case back on and now it wants to start but seems to lose power.

But I'll try taking it off again.
 
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benscheidhauer

New Member
Mikeinjersey said:
Welcome from NJ,
Not sure what bike you have but if your problems started after you put the clutch plates in take them out and see what happens. Your explanation doesn't make much sense. Does the bike lurch forward when your trying to start it?
This link will help you understand the relationship between the Engine , transmission and clutch.

Click to expand...
Better way to describe the clutch is, it's as disengaged as possible.
 
Mikeinjersey

Mikeinjersey

Well-Known Member
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I have a 99 Honda Magna.

I took the case off before when it wasn't working, and cranked it over and it started just fine. I put the case back on and now it wants to start but seems to lose power.

But I'll try taking it off again.
[/QUOTE]
Explain what you mean by losing power.
When your starting your bike in neutral the clutch will be engaged unless you have the handle depressed. I suspect that when you put the clutch plates and steels back in (and maybe spacers) they got mixed up or somehow the pressure plate is not installed correctly. The cover should not effect the operation of the clutch. I found this tutorial on the Honda Magna see if it gives you any help.


 
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benscheidhauer

New Member
Mikeinjersey said:
----------------------------------------------------------
I have a 99 Honda Magna.

I took the case off before when it wasn't working, and cranked it over and it started just fine. I put the case back on and now it wants to start but seems to lose power.

But I'll try taking it off again.
Click to expand...
Explain what you mean by losing power.
When your starting your bike in neutral the clutch will be engaged unless you have the handle depressed. I suspect that when you put the clutch plates and steels back in (and maybe spacers) they got mixed up or somehow the pressure plate is not installed correctly. The cover should not effect the operation of the clutch. I found this tutorial on the Honda Magna see if it gives you any help.

[/QUOTE]
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It turns over, but it seems like the starter is losing power to keep it turning over, like each crank is weaker than the last.

And i replaced everything exactly how I took it off... and this is the first clutch rebuild on this bike.

2 thin rings, then 9 friction and 8 steal internet (friction, steal, friction, steal...) and pressure plate just has the 5 posts that the springs go over... nothing really special there. (Shown in my ss)
 
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benscheidhauer

New Member
Mikeinjersey said:
----------------------------------------------------------
I have a 99 Honda Magna.

I took the case off before when it wasn't working, and cranked it over and it started just fine. I put the case back on and now it wants to start but seems to lose power.

But I'll try taking it off again.
Click to expand...
Explain what you mean by losing power.
When your starting your bike in neutral the clutch will be engaged unless you have the handle depressed. I suspect that when you put the clutch plates and steels back in (and maybe spacers) they got mixed up or somehow the pressure plate is not installed correctly. The cover should not effect the operation of the clutch. I found this tutorial on the Honda Magna see if it gives you any help.

[/QUOTE]
 
Mikeinjersey

Mikeinjersey

Well-Known Member
My understanding of what you are saying is : With the clutch put together including the pressure plate that the bike engine starts with no problem. But when you put the cover back on, the engine has trouble cranking enough to start. If this is so, I would expect to see some evidence of the cover hitting the pressure plate but you don't mention any damage or noise when you crank the engine. I think I am totally misunderstanding.
Is it possible that the cover is somehow interfering with what looks like an ignition sending unit at the top of the housing and maybe shorting out ? Snapchat Pic
 
S

Sven

Well-Known Member
You bought a school bike. Tuition money about running without oil. And you ran without oil for how many seconds? Pressure feed and splash feed are the only two types of lube. By running dry, you lost splash to the piston skirts, probably started seizing when you walked inside to make a hot cup of coco and kept the bike running with not oil, came back out with a burnt tongue and burnt the pistons up too.

Oh, you didn't, just started it and shut off. See what happens when you assume? And the compression on each cylinder is? So window say 153 -187 psi are the working numbers to run. If 152, then it needs a fresh top end.
 
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benscheidhauer

New Member
Mikeinjersey said:
My understanding of what you are saying is : With the clutch put together including the pressure plate that the bike engine starts with no problem. But when you put the cover back on, the engine has trouble cranking enough to start. If this is so, I would expect to see some evidence of the cover hitting the pressure plate but you don't mention any damage or noise when you crank the engine. I think I am totally misunderstanding.
Is it possible that the cover is somehow interfering with what looks like an ignition sending unit at the top of the housing and maybe shorting out ? Snapchat Pic
Click to expand...
So, I took the clutch case off again... and tried to start it and it only turned over but didnt start at all... just turned over 2-3 times. I cranked the clutch starter with a wrench and as I did i heard what sounded like a release of pressure (air or something) and im assuming it might be the oil pump? And as I see it, no gears are seized or locked. But when in 1st, the bike wont roll forward?

Update: Ive ordered a new clutch drum, and gasket, and will have fresh new oil
 
B

benscheidhauer

New Member
Sven said:
You bought a school bike. Tuition money about running without oil. And you ran without oil for how many seconds? Pressure feed and splash feed are the only two types of lube. By running dry, you lost splash to the piston skirts, probably started seizing when you walked inside to make a hot cup of coco and kept the bike running with not oil, came back out with a burnt tongue and burnt the pistons up too.

Oh, you didn't, just started it and shut off. See what happens when you assume? And the compression on each cylinder is? So window say 153 -187 psi are the working numbers to run. If 152, then it needs a fresh top end.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I didnt run it without oil. And I have no reason to think that the compression should be off when I only messed with the clutch basket/drum/case. And none of the gears are seized, and all teeth appear to be free moving when I crank the clutch starter by hand.
 
Jersey Big Mike

Jersey Big Mike

100K mile club
benscheidhauer said:
But when in 1st, the bike wont roll forward?
Click to expand...
When you say it won't roll forward in first, are you saying if You pull the clutch cable and try to roll in first it does not roll. If that's the case I would disassemble the clutch and make sure it's properly assembled. You should also with the cover off be able to see the clutch move when you pull the cable in and be able to measure the amount of movement. Find a manual for your bike or ask a shop what the distance needs to be on that bike.
 
B

benscheidhauer

New Member
Jersey Big Mike said:
When you say it won't roll forward in first, are you saying if You pull the clutch cable and try to roll in first it does not roll. If that's the case I would disassemble the clutch and make sure it's properly assembled. You should also with the cover off be able to see the clutch move when you pull the cable in and be able to measure the amount of movement. Find a manual for your bike or ask a shop what the distance needs to be on that bike.
Click to expand...
I was trying to upload a video of the clutch being pulled and released, but it wont upload, but the clutch does move just fine.

When in first, without the clutch pulled, the bike wont roll at all.
 
Mickmorris

Mickmorris

Well Known Member
Supporting Member
benscheidhauer said:
I was trying to upload a video of the clutch being pulled and released, but it wont upload, but the clutch does move just fine.

When in first, without the clutch pulled, the bike wont roll at all.
Click to expand...
Well I ain’t no rocket scientist but pretty sure that it ain’t supposed to roll in 1st gear unless you have the clutch pulled in. It should only roll freely WITH OUT the clutch pulled in when in neutral.
 
S

Sven

Well-Known Member
Here is the first less on troubleshooting: No matter where others tell you to look, or you look on your own about looking at non damaged parts, first move to a no start engine is...... WOT IS THE COMPRESSION??

I am not about to climbed down the rabbit hole 39 pages later and I hit F3, type in COM... BUZZZZZ is the answer.

Once you read the number, your next move it to see the 'working compression number' and if your are within spec. Say the hi/low is 153 -187 psi. If we are looking at 152 and that seems high to start an engine, but 152 is breakout saying "REBUILD."

Plugs out of the engine, someone holds the gauge if push style not screw in style, shift to top gear, open the throttle, both of you are holding either the tool running along side of the bike, someone else is pushing the bike in gear... Number reads?

Once that is established, you go to the next bandit of the 3amigos is fuel or spark. See how you keep throwing money at good know parts? Spark is there, but buy a new coil and the spark is still there, same spark color as the original. Next is dropping jets out the carb and swapping the carb off the car, see if that works?

Have I convinced you about your first [sea mess tear] about 'Frustration 101?'
 
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