EHC replacement

Slick117 · Mar 28, 2016

KaptinAmerika said:
"However, your box will work for many years without problems if you don´t intend to make a short circuit "

I still think you need to do a real world starter overload test.
At some point its going to happen with these Big Twins.
WIth all the other work seeming to be so easy for you would it really be that difficult to add in a secondary relay circuit with a regular 30 amp fuse for the startter circuit.
This is the same issue these other systems have been suffering from so why not deliver the right thing the first time.

Your right about the 30 amp fuse.......axel recommended it install one when he sent me his unit to test.

Th3InfamousI · Mar 28, 2016

KaptinAmerika said:
"However, your box will work for many years without problems if you don´t intend to make a short circuit "

I still think you need to do a real world starter overload test.
At some point its going to happen with these Big Twins.
WIth all the other work seeming to be so easy for you would it really be that difficult to add in a secondary relay circuit with a regular 30 amp fuse for the startter circuit.
This is the same issue these other systems have been suffering from so why not deliver the right thing the first time.

If he can incorporate a fuse block in the EHC potting to maintain the full self contained and pure "plug & play" that is far superior to anything we have seen yet.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk

BWG56 · Mar 28, 2016

Th3InfamousI said:
If he can incorporate a fuse block in the EHC potting to maintain the full self contained and pure "plug & play" that is far superior to anything we have seen yet.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk

Thats true, but all you have to do is cut into A3 and add the 30amp fuse, that way you keep the heat prior to the fuse blowing away from the module completely. I would think :oldconfused:

BWG56 · Mar 28, 2016

Slick117 said:
Kerry, it was, and is, literally a 10 minute plug and play operation.

If you call me Kerry again, the next time I see you I'm gonna smack the lips off your face

KaptinAmerika · Mar 28, 2016

I hope it all works but there are things with the EHC that I think are being overlooked, not that Axel could do anything about them if he was aware of them since millions of dollars and countless hours of R&D work were done at BD and they still were having minor issues at the end, so I wait with baited breath to see how all this plays out.
Just my ignorant, uneducated lack of knowledge view point though.

BWG56 · Mar 28, 2016

That's true Curtis, but look at all that data that you sent me when you checked out my ECH for me, I don't think this has anything like that kinda storage, and BD had to do something to protect against or know how bad the bike was beat, or not broken in properly

MossBerg590 · Mar 28, 2016

Good Job Axel! Looks like your figuring it all out pretty quick. Will definitley be an option if and when my Thunder heart goes bad. :old2:

KaptinAmerika · Mar 28, 2016

BWG56 said:
That's true Curtis, but look at all that data that you sent me when you checked out my ECH for me, I don't think this has anything like that kinda storage, and BD had to do something to protect against or know how bad the bike was beat, or not broken in properly

What I am talking about has nothing to do with the software side.
The software side was never the issue for BD it was hardware related.
I want to make clear that I have nothing but the best of hope for Axel as it would benefit so many BD owners greatly but I have my doubts that only time will prove or disprove.

budnwb · Mar 29, 2016

KaptinAmerika said:
If Alex doesn't then we do

03 BD EHC Upgrade

Can I get more info and pricing Thanks Bud.

Th3InfamousI · Mar 29, 2016

Axel said:
Hi,

just an update: I got the message from my distributor that the mixed signal D-Sub will be delivered after April 18. They just have 5 pcs. on stock, what they send tomorrow. Sch... So, I have to wait for 3 weeks more. Does anybody knows if there are other companies with these connectors out? The 50 pin con´s are easy to find but to find a distributor for the mixed signal con´s is a nightmare :-/

Curtis, an electronic box for custom bikes is not a big challenge from the electrical side. Of course I can not promise anything about long term functions. I just sold almost 1500 electronicboxes within the last 7 years and I learned several lessions with "try and error" within this time what had cost a bit money, time and many coffee and other drinks. I think, I know a little bit about the requirements on the road. There are 4 issues in my opinion: Water, high temperatures, shaking engines and interferences due to spark plugs. I don´t see a problem in the electronic design and the electrical dimensions of the parts on the board. The temperature of the high side switches are pretty low in all situations. I attach an ir photo of the EHC after about 15 minutes engine working with full headlights, following a 20 seconds start procedure, what drives the maximum current in the box. The maximum temperature was almost 40 degree C, what was much lower as I expected. So, the temperature difference to the environment somewhere is around 20 degree C what is good to reduce the risk of tensions on the board and temperature stress to the capacitors and semiconductors.

View attachment 31343

The main challenge in my opinion are the connectors. Even the waterproofed versions of the D-Subs might start to make trouble after some hundred hours of driving, shaking and raining. I believe that the con´s were the main issues in the original EHC. I screw the connectors on the board and have made the biggest possible soldering mask dots on the pcb in order to have as much as possible solder material on the connector contacts after wave soldering. Additional I have ordered the biggest possible copper tracks (70u instead of standard 35u copper) from the pcb factory. So, the contacts itself are (almost) prepared against shaking and bending. However, I think that water around the connectors will limit the lifetime of the EHC. Even the smallest gap in the potting compound after some hundred hours of ride might follow to corrosion on the contacts what results in poor connections and copperoxide bridges. We use a relative flexible potting compund for our devices (Odopal) and we use low quantities of harder in order to increase the dry time of the compound to the maximum time without tensions in our boxes. The results are ok with low returns of my other control boxes within the last years but I can not promise anything about a long lifetime and I only can learn by "try and error" with the EHC. By the way, I have seen that BD had used "semi hard" potting material in the 2007 EHC and later models. It cost them 4 years to learn it...

I got repeatly some price inquires within the last weeks. I felt that it is a bit too early for price offers before the products are ready. However, I got a lot of suggestions and big helps from you in this forum when I had any questions. Thanks a lot for all of the schematics and the comments, what helped me to change the EHC layouts several times until now. So, I would like to offer the first EHC serie to forum members for 290,- USD until these devices are empty (8 x EHC2004 and 9 x EHC 2005 - 2007 carbureted are available). The retail price of the 2004 EHC and 2005 - 2007 EHC for carbureted bikes will be around 480,- USD. I already found a few dealers who will distribute these products in the near future (when the sch... mixed signal connectors are available...).

I´ll be a bit busy with other things within this week and I will be out of the workshop next week due to a local music exhibition. I can fix a few EHC for you when I´m back in my workshop after April 11, if there are any interests. Pls. feel free to use my e-mail adress info(at)elektronikbox.de in case of any questions.

Tim, I hope you vorgive me this advertisement for this time, thanks!

All the best!
Axel

Axle,

Do you have any opinion on the fault of the original EHC other than the connector?

I believe someone in the past had mentioned they had used components on the board which per their spec sheet stated "do not pot". Which they obviously potted. Basically my question is what makes your product superior? Other than the increased contact point for the dsub. You just matched the high side switch, not exceed in any way, yes?

I appreciate you mentioning it took 4 years for them to come up with the semi solid potting haha.

Also what is your failure rate on your Dbox? To enlighten us on your previous work.

Thanks again for what you have done.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk

awg · Mar 30, 2016

Any warranty being offered? Hard to believe all these years and no one could make a replacement that don't involve either cutting wires, pulling out the old harness, or rewiring the whole damn bike. This replacement EHC is how it should of been done years ago. Truly plug and play. I just hope it passes the test and is a worthy replacement. If so I will be looking at purchasing one.

KaptinAmerika · Mar 30, 2016

My understanding is BD spent some insane amount of money on R&D of the EHC.
If it could of been done before I think it would have been, although at this point it seems TH had it all along since the RIP kits are not failing and they have been in service now for over a year.
And in all fairness it still hasn't been "done".
Thats no chop at Axel its just the truth.
When this version has been on the road for an extended period of time with no failures then its a whole different ball game.
Axel himself is at least being honest in stating that he can't be sure of its lengevity at this point.

BWG56 · Mar 30, 2016

KaptinAmerika said:
.
If it could of been done before I think it would have been, although at this point it seems TH had it all along since the RIP kits are not failing and they have been in service now for over a year.
.

Tru Dat, DOC's ESC is using the TH also, we haven't heard of any problems yet with the TH module which is a bonus :old2:

Only thing we can do is wait and see how Axel's holds up after a couple get out there in use, half the price and 10 minute install is very appealing. :whoop:

I personally don't need one but its goods news for the BD community :here:

Rottweiler · Mar 30, 2016

Axel said:
info(at)elektronikbox.de

Thanks for the update Axel :cheers:

I might need one of the 2004 models. :sex:

Lorenzo · Mar 30, 2016

I believe the design of the RIP kit from Curtis is the best one. It is in a sealed one piece aluminum case, eliminating water. Heat is minimal which means it stays cooler. All your doing is eliminating 1 connector, the rear, so it is plug and play. It took me about 2 hours and haven't had an issue yet. Just a piece of advice when installing the RIP kit, cut a thin piece of rubber to sit the bracket on. So in closing, I hope your idea works long term but it would have to be a few years of real world testing before I'd buy it. Might be cheaper but I want long lasting. JMO
Carry on!

Slick117 · Mar 30, 2016

pknowles said:
Competition usually drives pricing

Paul, you are right. And I, for one am glad to see it. We have a guy here, who came on this forum two months ago, and has presented us with a viable option to a problem that has plagued these bikes for years. It might not be perfect yet, but I think the guy is really trying. That speaks volumes to me. I had the opportunity to meet and spend a few minutes with Matt Moore at the river grill that Saturday in daytona. He was very vocal about how some people were using the limited availability of parts to drive the prices up. He also said that was the reason he wasn't able to turn on the shopping cart option on the new Big Dog site. He said it was impossible to set up a pricing structure, when eBay was being used to dictate the market value of replacement parts for our bikes. He really came across to me as someone who genuinely cares about the brand and the bikes already out there. I hope we see more competition. Just sayin.

BWG56 · Mar 30, 2016

Lorenzo said:
I believe the design of the RIP kit from Curtis is the best one. It is in a sealed one piece aluminum case, eliminating water. Heat is minimal which means it stays cooler. All your doing is eliminating 1 connector, the rear, so it is plug and play. It took me about 2 hours and haven't had an issue yet. Just a piece of advice when installing the RIP kit, cut a thin piece of rubber to sit the bracket on. So in closing, I hope your idea works long term but it would have to be a few years of real world testing before I'd buy it. Might be cheaper but I want long lasting. JMO
Carry on!

Its the same one (TH) used in the ESC from DOC, but the ESC has optional voltage monitoring and eliminates the JST connector under the tank for the headlight.
Lorenzo, you were going to buy my old ECH for $300, but it failed the cold test, so I think if Axel's unit had been available sooner I do believe you would be running it right now.

EHC replacement

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