SKOGDOG
One of the old ones.
I have a 2010 Bagger, and it is built like yours, Kevin. Oil reservoir below the level of engine and oil pump...never will have that problem unless gravity takes a holiday!
Oil not returning to oil tank?
- Thread starter Glenn
- Start date
One easy thing to try here to find an issue without the gauge is add some oil to your oil tank and spin off your oil filter and start the motor. You should have a steady steam of oil. You can run it for about a minute and shouldn't run out of oil.
This will rule out any oil pump concerns.
Really the oil pump works or it doesn't. No in between. The only thing that controls the pressure is the spring. And unless you got 100k on your motor the spring isn't weak enough to trip that oil light which is like 2PSI
Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
Glenn
Member
Thanks SKOGDOG - I will make those checks - ordering a pressure guage now. Will report back as soon as I know something!
john sachs
Well-Known Member
4 things to check.
A lot of oil in the sump
Breather gear, and breather gear bore.
Scavange gear side of the oil pump, be sure the key on the shaft is not broken.
If the cam cover has been off recently, be sure the replacement gasket is the right one.
A lot of oil in the sump
Breather gear, and breather gear bore.
Scavange gear side of the oil pump, be sure the key on the shaft is not broken.
If the cam cover has been off recently, be sure the replacement gasket is the right one.
Jersey Big Mike
100K mile club
Did you recently do an oil change -- you might have gotten the wrong filter A Twin Cam filter is too fine for an evo engine oil pump.
ground pounder
Active Member
There's also the spool valve with a spring and a cylindrical spool which sometimes leaks. Part number 89 and 90 in the diagram above.
wrench
Member
remove the filter and start it to see if the oil is being pumped back to the tank. if it is not than the return gears in the pump are not turning. if you have the crank flooded with enough oil it should be sumping out the crank case vent hose if your bike has a crank vent. if not , with enough oil it will come out the head breathers.
a TPI oil pump will cure any leak into the crank while sitting problems. old harleys with gravity fed oil tanks have most always flooded the crank case while sitting long enough . like over the winter while in storage.
easiest way to change any hard to get at seal like the crank seal is to use a couple sheet metal screws. as you turn em in the seal is pushed out. if its a metal cased seal, drill a small hole on both sides and insert the screws. rubber seals just screw the screws into the rubber and through it..
a TPI oil pump will cure any leak into the crank while sitting problems. old harleys with gravity fed oil tanks have most always flooded the crank case while sitting long enough . like over the winter while in storage.
easiest way to change any hard to get at seal like the crank seal is to use a couple sheet metal screws. as you turn em in the seal is pushed out. if its a metal cased seal, drill a small hole on both sides and insert the screws. rubber seals just screw the screws into the rubber and through it..
Glenn
Member
UPDATE: Well I know its been a few weeks since I posted about my oil issue but something came up that I had to address. So anyway I purchased an oil guage and hooked it up and also a new oil sending unit. The bike had been sitting several weeks now and when I fired it up some white smoke came out the pipes. It cleared up quickly and i went for a test ride. Oil pressure would hit 20-30 lbs when revved up and was 5 to 7 at idle. Once the oil got to operating temp I was getting 0 at idle and about 20 lbs when revved up. I noticed during my test ride that the oil light was still flickering. Now my oil light is also set up to flicker if there are any electrical issues with the charging system. Now the Crazy: I was letting the bike idle while I was looking around checking other stuff and white smoke started billowing out my exhaust like a dam car with a blown head gasket. When I revved it again - it really came out thick on the front pipe. My wife came out into the garage and said I can barely see you whats going on out here! I was so mad I wanted to take a sledge hammer to the gas tank. This 117 engine only has 11,500 miles on her. I meticulously take care of my vehicles so this blows my friggen mind. Gee I just installed an rebuilt trans by andrew 6 months ago and installed a new wiring harness by dead one customs. Very happy with both. Thought my bike would finally be reliable for a chopper but now the engine seems to be taking a crap...
Where do I go from here(besides the junk yard?) Could a malfunctioning oil pump be causing this?
Any suggestions or ideas.
starting to have a love/hate relationship with my dog at this point...
Where do I go from here(besides the junk yard?) Could a malfunctioning oil pump be causing this?
Any suggestions or ideas.
starting to have a love/hate relationship with my dog at this point...
Everything about your oil pressure sounds about right. When it's hot it's pretty close to zero on the gauge. Mine will bounce off zero.
Have you tried cleaning your tappet screen? Someone made a comment above about using the wrong oil filter for you double check which one you are using? Twin Cam filters get used on accident sometimes and they cause flow issues particularly at idle.
Regarding your oil light flickering like you said it could be the electrical not charging. Doc has it set up to illuminate anything less than 13.5 I think, have to double check. Either way sometimes at idle mine will flicker because the bike just is under the normal charging range, but once I give it a few twist it goes out.
Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
Jersey Big Mike
100K mile club
Change the filter - make sure you have on for an EVO
Take the oil lines off at the oil filter and blow compressed air down the return line to make sure its clear. You should be able to see bubbling in oil level at the dip stick.
If you have or can borrow a scavenger, use it to make sure oils getting to filter, then if the oil line is clear to tank and you have a new filter everything should be good.
Take the oil lines off at the oil filter and blow compressed air down the return line to make sure its clear. You should be able to see bubbling in oil level at the dip stick.
If you have or can borrow a scavenger, use it to make sure oils getting to filter, then if the oil line is clear to tank and you have a new filter everything should be good.
BWG56
Guru
If you can't get a hold of a scavenger, just use tin foil to make a funnel under the filter mount and catch it under the bike
Glenn
Member
OK this is what I checked. First off Im using a K&N 170C oil Filter.
I drained the oil and these are the amounts I recorded:
1) Crankcase Sump - 2 full Quarts (seems like a problem here)
2) Oil Tank - 2.3 Quarts
3) Oil Filter - 6 oz
Bike had 4.5+ Quarts of oil which is way too much.
I was adding oil because it was never showing up on the dipstick! Which could mean that oil was not returning fast enough to the oil tank and causing the sump to overfill.
I have heard that some oil filters can cause this condition because of the micron rating reducing the flow rate back to the oil tank - not sure thats the case as I think many here use the K&N 170c.
1) I will blow out the oil lines - I cant imagine why they would plug up with the frequent oil changes I do..
2) I really hate to tear into my oil pump at this point.
3) This sucks.
I drained the oil and these are the amounts I recorded:
1) Crankcase Sump - 2 full Quarts (seems like a problem here)
2) Oil Tank - 2.3 Quarts
3) Oil Filter - 6 oz
Bike had 4.5+ Quarts of oil which is way too much.
I was adding oil because it was never showing up on the dipstick! Which could mean that oil was not returning fast enough to the oil tank and causing the sump to overfill.
I have heard that some oil filters can cause this condition because of the micron rating reducing the flow rate back to the oil tank - not sure thats the case as I think many here use the K&N 170c.
1) I will blow out the oil lines - I cant imagine why they would plug up with the frequent oil changes I do..
2) I really hate to tear into my oil pump at this point.
3) This sucks.
Jersey Big Mike
100K mile club
While the K&N 170c is the right oil filter for diagnostic reasons, I would still change it - Who knows, maybe one for a twin cam got in the wrong box, my point is it's an easy and cheap test (no value lost -- you can use the new filter till the next oil change!)
Way to much oil in sump, as Ker said make a funnel to watch the oil come out the where the filter is --if its coming out there and you check the line to the tank (check for a pinched line while your at it) and you have a new filter I'm totally lost.
Basically -- break it down to find out where the oil flow stops by selectively opening spots.
Oil will drain into the sump when sitting (Over winter). If you check ball has failed in the oil pump and your crank fills with oil the pump just can't scavenge the oil fast enough so it backs up in the heads as it has to go some where. Doesn't really explain why you drove it just fine however.
SInce you have everything drained go ahead and fill and as the others suggest spin off the oil filter and run the motor with the tank full. Make sure that oil is being pumped out of the oil pump. If you get flow out of the oil pump to the filter housing then we know it's not an oil pump failure.
Glenn
Member
Well this looks bad to me.
Test 1
1) I put 3 quarts of oil in the oil tank - oil filter removed.
2) Engine Off: Immediately a thin stream of oil started to dribble out of the oil filter housing.
I guess that means the oil is going directly from the oil tank through the oil pump and out the filter housing - so check valves not working.
Test 2
1) Connected my scavenger oil pump system and started the engine.
2) a thin stream of oil with lots of air bubbles came out the scavenger tube - the oil was incredibly foamy.
Oil flow rate did not increase when engine revved up. Just a foamy trickle.
Video Here:
I guess this is what an oil pump failure looks like? How common is this and why did it happen?
Test 1
1) I put 3 quarts of oil in the oil tank - oil filter removed.
2) Engine Off: Immediately a thin stream of oil started to dribble out of the oil filter housing.
I guess that means the oil is going directly from the oil tank through the oil pump and out the filter housing - so check valves not working.
Test 2
1) Connected my scavenger oil pump system and started the engine.
2) a thin stream of oil with lots of air bubbles came out the scavenger tube - the oil was incredibly foamy.
Oil flow rate did not increase when engine revved up. Just a foamy trickle.
Video Here:
I guess this is what an oil pump failure looks like? How common is this and why did it happen?
That all looks normal too me. Foamy is because just some air mixed in from you draining all the holes, no sweat.
Your oil pump did not fail. The oil pump has supply and scavenger gears. You have oil coming out that means its working. Either the pump will work or it doesn't no real middle ground with a pump without getting into too much detail regarding spring pressures.
I bet it didn't smoke at idle anymore did it?
You may want to try and reseat the check ball in the oil pump but I suspect it you ride it a bit it will be fine.
I think the problem is you overfilled it and the oil had no where to go and backed up into your heads. and yes the oil will always leak into the sump a little bit it's just the placement of the tank on the k9 specifically.
Always always check the oil pressure after riding it while the bike is still warm so it doesn't have time to seep back down into the sump. You can run these bikes easily with a quart of oil low and not have any damage concerns so don't jump the gun
Oh and ride more often
Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
Last edited:
Glenn
Member
Yes Th3InfamousI it did not smoke this time. I guess because the sump has not had time to overfill due to the a possible bad check valve. I will tackle the check valve issue next. Thanks for the feedback!
I may have edited my post a bit. Go back and take a look. I think the whole issue is you just overfilled it and it had no where to go. Both the supply and return gears spin at exactly the same speed they are on the same rod. There's a small difference in gear size on the HVHP pump but it's not enough to scavenge faster then it's feeding if it's over filled.
Anyways! Don't fret! You are ready for riding season and it's not gonna cost ya any money.
Good luck and ride safe
Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
Glenn
Member
I removed the little piston and spring from the top of the oil pump. It had very dirty oil in that area. Was able to get it out with a magnet. Cleaned it good and made sure it was sliding up and down in the pump cavity.
Ran the bike up to operating temperature and your right no smoke. So my problems came from me overfilling the oil tank. The reasons were; One - my oil light was flickering (but now believe it was a loose battery connection as it stopped) and two - could not get a reading on my dip stick.
So I will just make sure I put 3 qts of oil in her and keep up with the frequent oil changes.
Thanks for your help and feedback and all you other folks who chimed in! This is a great site with great people!
Have a great summer Th3InfamousI.